looting rights need some way of being controlled, the "normal" way of doing this is in my experience that the first character to call and engage the target gets looting rights, as well as any potential group members.

the problem in VO is that the definition of the first character to engage would have to be *either* the first character to hit someone or involve some special target command, in effect tagging the target. either way "works", maybe make it so either way works -- you have a "tag target"-command, but if it is untagged, hitting it will do just fine.

I'd also like to see looting rights be lost if you leave the sector, as long as a group member remains in the same sector as the target you keep your rights. if everyone flees the sector, you have to restablish looting rights, and someone can potentially "steal" the rights.

another issue with this is that groups can only hold 8 members, a levi-hunting party might be larger than that. I think WoW has done something very sane here with having RAID groups, which is basically groups of groups. group leaders could create and join these RAID groups and the raid would have its own special channel. this would also make larger manouvers and larger missions that require 9+ members (or two distinct groups, heavies / fighters, cargo movers / interceptors) have a better way of organizing themselves.

the RAID is also a "group" with regards to looting rights.

wouldn't that be RAIG? Redundant Array of Independent Groups? Sorry. Geek joke (yes, I know the more recent interpretation is "Inexpensive" for I).

Anyway, I think that's generally a good idea. I'm a little concerned about how to do looting rights. I think it is something we should do.. somehow. I'm not sure how to go about it though. I think this sort of thing will become more easily feasable once we have the new interface system in place, and can create some kind of "looting interface". Then there's the problem that we don't have "corpses" exactly, yadda yadda.. so we'd have to have them drop one big cargo crate that everyone looks at? I dunno. More suggestions here are welcome.

Doing looting determination based on who fires the killing shot shouldn't be too bad. But, it might be awkward if the lev was killed by say.. a Queen colliding with it or some other dumb thing. I guess we would have to log and backtrack to the last user who damaged it or some such, and was still in the sector. Bleh.

Oh I completely forgot to suggest the groups thing after groups were just implemented in Vendetta. My brother used to play FFXI and they had groups, and then you could make an alliance of groups (they also had guilds, so it's not too much). That gave me the idea that in Vendetta maybe groups could form a squadron... and the idea of guilds, but everyone was already asking for that.

Oh well, I recommend the part of this suggestion saying that a higher level of groups do go in.

heh, RAIG, just so you know you're all expendable. :-p

the problem with the dying shot being the clincher is that poaching becomes *very* doable. sneak in after a big RAIG has been thumping the levi, and spam it into oblivion with swarms and gems. sure, it's hard to time, but, eh, it's doable. and that'd get *really* frustrating. sure, you can kill the poacher, but you still loose the epic?

I still think looting rights must be set as early as possible, not as late as possible.

I tend to disagree with this whole issue to be honest. I kind of like the whole "dropped cargo" effect, it's more interesting and enjoyable to me that the cargo CAN be snagged by anyone. my suggestion is to just make the epic cargo so massive (hell make it 15 times as massive as samo if you have to :) )that anyone who grabs it is gonna be a sitting duck. require it to be returned to a station before it can be "refitted" (for a price maybe?) into whatever useful item it is supposed to be, at which point you can alter the mass to whatever balance you need.

you can also give anyone carrying an un-refitted epic cargo a visual glow. make them look like the old flag carrier did in alpha.

That will prevent any lone poachers, because the group will be easily able to pounce on someone trying to steal the epic item.

For the rest of the cargo and equipment that would be dropped by bots, IMO most of it should be so common that having someone steal a bit of it isnt a huge deal.

Why not just do this. OK say the Levi dies and this huge massive a** crate appears containing some super top secret highly devastating epic item. Why not say that instead of the crate being picked up, that when someone runs into it the crate explodes shooting out many of the epic item (just for visual effects) When in actuallity whoever has ben in the secotr for the past five minutes gets the item. Instead of one item, given to one person, that was dropped by something that took MANY MANY people to kill. No one person is ever going to kill the Levi so IMO no one person should get the booty. If we do infact start RAIG/RAID groups then it can be limited to everyone in the group, in the sector, within a certain time frame. (youd have to meet all three qualifications to recieve the item) Anyway thats my 2c.

-Seta Solenk

The problem with using mass as the limiter is that we now have a very wide range of thrusts and masses for our ships (and as the Trident and other ships are introduced, it will only become wider). It takes far, far less mass to effectively cripple a Valk than it takes to cripple a Prom. If the mass of the "epic" cargo is so much as to make a Prom a "sitting duck", then a Valk is barely going to be able to move at all.

Personally, I don't know that I'm really keen on the whole idea of "epic drops" in VO. I think it's better to deal with it using badges, like the Hive Queen Hunter badge. If it's decided that some equipment should be even rarer, then have additional limitations on it, on top of the badge, like only X number of the equipment is produced a week (at random times throughout the week).

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Also, I hate to bring this up over and over again, but if as the loading screen tip says, the Hive cannot invent their own weapons, then were are these "epic items" coming from, when they are dropped by the Hive? This is one of the reasons I prefer using the badges to limit access to "epic" equipment.

Yes, it's possible that the Hive could have come into contact with alien races and/or found a new route back to Sol, and they are scavenging technology from a source not available to us, but if that's the case, I'd rather the "epic items" were not introduced until after the exploration expansion, with a more dynamic universe, and WHs being discovered and closing. The way it is now, the universe is too static for me to see the Hive being in contact with some unknown source of technology to scavenge from.
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Well I believe that if it is decided to be a "drop" then it shouldnt be a solitary drop and that many people should get it. If a badge system would work better then thats fine too. Distribute the badge to anyone in the sector when the levi dies or something. As far as rarity is concerned, I think once the devs actually implement any kind of epic items stemming from the destruction of a leviathan, that those items will be extremely rare considering the immense amount of skill and players it will take to bring one of these bad boys down. The devs have already stated that the current levi is no where near its intended strength. I mean they called the sector a freakin stronghold for cryin out loud. By the time epic items appear, anyone that has one will definately have earned it whether they have a badge or just the item itself.

-Seta Solenk

""-The problem with using mass as the limiter is that we now have a very wide range of thrusts and masses for our ships (and as the Trident and other ships are introduced, it will only become wider). It takes far, far less mass to effectively cripple a Valk than it takes to cripple a Prom.-""

And as far as I'M concerned that makes no difference, since by really massive, I mean the kind of mass it takes to cripple a behemoth, at an absolute minimum. The idea is to make the epic item something a group has to defend while getting it back to base so it can become usable. getting it should take teamwork, both in destroying the levi and getting it back to base.

And if someone can SNEAK into a sector with a trident class ship to steal the cargo, then you deserve to loose it lol.

I dont like the badge system because IMO an epic item should be a one-shot. something that you only have until you die, maybe it has a small chance (lower than 10%) of surviving a players death and being availible as a pickup.

Mike, I think the idea was for an epic item to be something that a guild could use as a group. something that you will want wingmen to help protect, so its not really going to one person, it's going to one group.

EDIT: on the other hand if there were some kind of a "points" system that you could use to buy much better grade weapons and the like, and being part of a levi kill earned you points...

that might do it. killing a levi would give you... 5 points, a queen would be worth 1. you could trade in points for gear thats not availible with just license levels. that way the items are still limited(as badge items aren't), but everyone involved gets some reward for the kill.

the points system is also useful for another reason, who gets the drop from a Levi? for guilds and larger RAIGs, you'll need some sort of internal bookkeeping to see who has earned the object. if you give out a spread of points (divide it between the members in the group / RAIG, they're all in this together, but let us kick slackers), that'll be kinda nice. a small bonus for the one who gets the kill might be nice, but everyone in the group (or who hit the target) gets a small reward.

it'll also let people get stuff at stations as rewards, removing the problem of how the HIVE came up with this stuff. :-)

Epic items should not be dropped, they should be created from epic item parts that drop off of high level raid targets (combat epic), or be earned though a long progressive mission (trader/miner epic). You should have to complete a mission to get your actual "epic item". This would add more missions to the game.

As for the way in which they should be aquired after mob death, I don't see any reason to change the current system, perhaps give the special items a different glow effect or something, or make it a little larger looking, but you should still be able to swoop in and grab it (anyone). This is where the community needs to do the policing, not the system. Having cargo aquirable to anyone is much more fun, makes you have to protect it if you want it and get to it first, a level of uncertanty, just like real life. Most other MMO's that I've played do not have any set system to give items to specific players, you just grab and it's yours. If it were set up the way that terjekv stated in his original post, then pirates and theives alike would NEVER have an opportunity to swoop in and grab it, and thats no fun. Half the time its more fun fending off the pirates then the actual event that got them to show up in the first place.

Well, we do have corpses, have people loot scrap metal, you collect it, then take it back to a station to examine it, occasionally you'll find something

I like that, it's a secret unless it's examined at a station, could accidently sell it off or turn it in during a scrap metal mission without even knowing it.

I think thats the best idea I've read in this thread Shape! (not that some of the others aren't good)

hehehehehe, have the big ships like the cappies & the Levi drop 1000 units of scrap metal, with a 10% of being a "semi-rare" item, and 1% a "rare" item, and 0.1% "very rare".

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Only Research Stations should be able to tell you whether any are more than just scrap.
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Has it been decided whether or not there are going to be any alien races? IMO that would be the best explanation for "one-shot" items like Spellcast suggested. Other wise, what's the justification for making it one-shot? If we can build one, why can't we build 100000? How far away is the exploration expansion at this point? IMO that should come before introducing any aliens, even indirectly through epic drops (if that's how epic drops are explained).

if its not a one shot than its not rare beo. If it doesn't go *poof* when the ship its on does, but is returned magically to the station with the pilot, or can be repurchased by the pilot, then eventually everyone will have them.

The more I think about it the more i like a point buy system for epic items. Accomplishing certain tasks or completeing high level missions gives points that can be used to buy special gear. It solves the problem of how to make sure everyone involved in a lev kill gets rewarded, AND prevents epic items from becoming common because once you spend the points they are gone and you have to earn more.

as for justifying "why" call the points influence points or something similar. once you call in a favor it's not good any more, so treat them like calling in favors with your government to get a special piece of equipment that isnt normally availible to the masses.

Well, of course it would be destroyed with the player's ship. But there's more than one way of making it rare than just having it available dropped from ships. It could be made so that only 10 are produced, at 10 random times throughout the week (or even less often, for more rare items). So only the player who first purchased it once it was available would get it, and they would only have it until they died. Many other ways to make it rare, as well.

The thing is believability: either the items are being constructed by the human factions, or they are not. As it is now, there is nothing other than the human factions that is capable of inventing new technology. That could change, either by having the Hive scavenge technology from an alien intelligence, or from the humans left behind on the far side of the original WH, or other ways, but IMO all of those explanations rely on dynamic wormholes opening and closing and being discovered, and so IMO should none of those explanations should be relied upon until after the exploration expansion introduces a more dynamic universe.

For the time being, if any epic items are introduced before the exploration expansion, I don't think they should be dropped by the Hive. Having them limited by influence points earned through "epic feats" (epic battles against the Hive, or against Itani/Serco forces, or lots of other "epic feats") done for a faction makes a lot of sense to me, and I like it.

I like the points system as well. And more importantly I agree with Spell that it should be influence points or something very similar. I also think that not only should these points be able to be used to "purchase" epic weapons but should (if they are infact introduced) be required for the much bigger ships. AKA a guild would have to collectively come up with a crap load of influence points as well as a huge some of money to aquire a cap ship of their own. then eventually influence points could be used to purchase better weapons or additional docking bays or better defense drones ect ect for the cap ship.

-Seta Solenk

I was thinking about this a bit last night as I was playing with my medical ship and realized, if it were based on hits on target, any medics you had in your group would not get any points, same goes for doing BP missions, if you had someone in the group as a healer and your rewarded solely based on attacking targets the medic will never be rewarded, yet having a medic in group means you can potentially neveer return to a station if you use energy weapons. Other MMO's reward the group for their work not the individual, and leave it to the group to police the none active players and kick them from the group if they are not contributing in some for.

Incidentally, emphasis should not be placed on the "tips" that talk about the Hive. Waylon put those in there without consulting me, and some of them are quite wrong. I asked him to remove them like a year ago. Obviously, I forgot all about it.