Forums » Suggestions
The Leviathan and Hive Queens are described as construction facilities for the Hive. Based on this, I think it would be cool if the Leviathan was continuously constructing additional armor plating for itself, say at a rate of 100 points per hour, with no maximum. This would make it so that unless the Leviathan was attacked at least semi-frequently, it would over time build up a massive amount of hull armor. This would make attacking the Leviathan frequently a more important aspect of keeping the Hive's threat from becoming too high, as the longer the Leviathan goes without being attacked, the more difficult it will be to destroy it and (temporarily) halt Hive Queen production.
Also in such cases where the Leviathan's armor did increase significantly, say to 125% its initial armor, a news post would be made along the lines of "HIVE WARNING: *Leviathan TQ-6638 has been sighted in Sedina P-10, and scans of its hull armor show unprecedented high levels! Fighter pilots are encouraged to travel to Sedina to assist in destroying this menace to the safety of all our nations."
This would lead to very large, multi-nation cooperative raids on the Leviathan.
Also in such cases where the Leviathan's armor did increase significantly, say to 125% its initial armor, a news post would be made along the lines of "HIVE WARNING: *Leviathan TQ-6638 has been sighted in Sedina P-10, and scans of its hull armor show unprecedented high levels! Fighter pilots are encouraged to travel to Sedina to assist in destroying this menace to the safety of all our nations."
This would lead to very large, multi-nation cooperative raids on the Leviathan.
There has to be some cap on how high the armor can go. Simply from a programming standpoint as there is a limit to the amount of memory allocated to any one variable. However depending on the type of variables used that maximum may be high enough to not have worry about it.
Otherwise i think this idea could be worth concidering.
Otherwise i think this idea could be worth concidering.
Actually, there are ways to program variables with no maximum or minimum value (until the computer runs out of memory, anyway). Dynamic memory allocation is your friend. But OK, we can make the armor an unsigned long long variable (8 bytes or more, on most systems). That makes the maximum armor 264, or 18446744073709551616 points. That should be high enough to be challenging. ;-)
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Note that if the additional armor is added at the 100 points per hour that I suggested, in order for the Leviathan to max out that armor, it would have to not be damaged at all for over 21057927024 millenia. If Vendetta Online is still running that long from now, I just hope I'm still playing!
So I guess just an unsigned long (4 or 8 bytes on most systems) would probably be sufficient. That puts the max armor at 4294967296, which would only take the Leviathan a bit over 49 centuries to reach adding armor at 100 points per hour.
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[edit]
Note that if the additional armor is added at the 100 points per hour that I suggested, in order for the Leviathan to max out that armor, it would have to not be damaged at all for over 21057927024 millenia. If Vendetta Online is still running that long from now, I just hope I'm still playing!
So I guess just an unsigned long (4 or 8 bytes on most systems) would probably be sufficient. That puts the max armor at 4294967296, which would only take the Leviathan a bit over 49 centuries to reach adding armor at 100 points per hour.
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Hmmm... maybe 100 points an hour is too slow, but I didn't want to go any higher than that, because I didn't want it to be able to add more armor fast enough to effect it during combat.
So maybe it should stop constructing additional armor for itself when it is attacked, and not restart adding armor until it hasn't been damaged for 10 minutes. Then we could make it construct more armor for itself at a faster rate, maybe 500 or 1000 points per hour.
I'm having a hard time choosing a number, because I'm just guessing at how frequently it will be attacked, and how much damage it will suffer each time it's attacked.
So maybe it should stop constructing additional armor for itself when it is attacked, and not restart adding armor until it hasn't been damaged for 10 minutes. Then we could make it construct more armor for itself at a faster rate, maybe 500 or 1000 points per hour.
I'm having a hard time choosing a number, because I'm just guessing at how frequently it will be attacked, and how much damage it will suffer each time it's attacked.
yea, i wasn't sure what the actual limits were on those varialbe types, and was concerened that a dynamic system could cause trouble with regards to memory limits if the leviathin were left alone for too long, but it seems my concern was unessisary.
I actualy like the limit somwhere around 170 points per hr, that way it will gain a little over 1000 points every 6 houres. I think more than that might be a bad idea untill this has been tried for a while to make certain it wouln't get out of hand.
I actualy like the limit somwhere around 170 points per hr, that way it will gain a little over 1000 points every 6 houres. I think more than that might be a bad idea untill this has been tried for a while to make certain it wouln't get out of hand.
what? languages with fixed sized integer variables? geeeze. people still use those? :-)
Re: Lord Q
1000 points every 6 hours would be fine, if the Leviathon is not attacked very frequently. This is why I'm having a hard time choosing a number, I don't know how frequently it would be attacked. If most Leviathans are only attacked once or twice a week, 100 or 170 points an hour would be plenty. But if most Leviathans are attacked once or twice a day, they will probably never build up much armor. I'd like to occasionally see "legendary" Leviathans, that had built up a large armor plating.
Re: terjekv
C & C++ rule over all other languages (except assembly, for some things).
1000 points every 6 hours would be fine, if the Leviathon is not attacked very frequently. This is why I'm having a hard time choosing a number, I don't know how frequently it would be attacked. If most Leviathans are only attacked once or twice a week, 100 or 170 points an hour would be plenty. But if most Leviathans are attacked once or twice a day, they will probably never build up much armor. I'd like to occasionally see "legendary" Leviathans, that had built up a large armor plating.
Re: terjekv
C & C++ rule over all other languages (except assembly, for some things).
...but the ruling of C stops in 2038 on a few platforms... :-)
seriously, I use exactly 0 languages that have fixed sized variables, I use a few languages where I can tell the optimizer that "the value in this variable will not exceed <foo>, turn that into something the hardware likes".
seriously, I use exactly 0 languages that have fixed sized variables, I use a few languages where I can tell the optimizer that "the value in this variable will not exceed <foo>, turn that into something the hardware likes".
Not if the platforms are fixed (which most of them will be). Mine is already good to go until the year 9223372034708485227.
Anyway, have we had enough off-topic discussion of programming languages yet? Everyone will have different opinions.
Anyway, have we had enough off-topic discussion of programming languages yet? Everyone will have different opinions.
I guess it depends on how may leviathins there are and where they are. I'd expect some leviathins to be attacked more often than others, so while the Sedina, leviathin may get killed every 6 hr or so, the one ijn Odia may get a couple months till it's automated warning triggers before it get's attacked.
Anyway probably the only way to know for sure is to try it. And if it's going to be tried then a reasonably low number should be chosen and then increased if it is found to be nesesary.
Anyway probably the only way to know for sure is to try it. And if it's going to be tried then a reasonably low number should be chosen and then increased if it is found to be nesesary.
Heh, how did integer size come up again? I can really see a leviathan with armor of 2^32 being fun... 0_o
There's got to be a cap, and a reasonable one. No one is going to spend 8 hours killing something that doesn't give massive XP or have the chance to drop some insane item... and Vendetta doesn't need massive XP, or have item drops.
There's got to be a cap, and a reasonable one. No one is going to spend 8 hours killing something that doesn't give massive XP or have the chance to drop some insane item... and Vendetta doesn't need massive XP, or have item drops.
> There's got to be a cap, and a reasonable one. No one is going to spend 8 hours
> killing something that doesn't give massive XP or have the chance to drop some
> insane item... and Vendetta doesn't need massive XP, or have item drops.
No ONE will, but that's the point, this would encourage large raiding groups to form to attack the Leviathan - which should usually be the case, but this would encourage even larger than most raiding groups. And I don't think it would have to give very massive XP, or drop items, in order for players to do it. Players would do it mostly because it would be fun, and also because it would be necessary to keep the Hive threat down. If everyone decides "oh, not enough XP, no epic item dropped, I'll just ignore it", then that's going to make the Leviathan live forever, building more an more Hive Queens, which would build more and more Hive Bots, which overrun more and more space.
Oh, and dropped items are something that, while VO doesn't "need" it, a lot of players (myself included) think would be a good addition. But I don't think Leviathans (or any Hive bots) should drop any type of unique items, 'cause the loading tips says the hive "cannot design new armaments, they've borrowed from 200 years of human innovation." So if the Hive drops anything, I don't think it should be unique, they just copied the design from human innovation.
> killing something that doesn't give massive XP or have the chance to drop some
> insane item... and Vendetta doesn't need massive XP, or have item drops.
No ONE will, but that's the point, this would encourage large raiding groups to form to attack the Leviathan - which should usually be the case, but this would encourage even larger than most raiding groups. And I don't think it would have to give very massive XP, or drop items, in order for players to do it. Players would do it mostly because it would be fun, and also because it would be necessary to keep the Hive threat down. If everyone decides "oh, not enough XP, no epic item dropped, I'll just ignore it", then that's going to make the Leviathan live forever, building more an more Hive Queens, which would build more and more Hive Bots, which overrun more and more space.
Oh, and dropped items are something that, while VO doesn't "need" it, a lot of players (myself included) think would be a good addition. But I don't think Leviathans (or any Hive bots) should drop any type of unique items, 'cause the loading tips says the hive "cannot design new armaments, they've borrowed from 200 years of human innovation." So if the Hive drops anything, I don't think it should be unique, they just copied the design from human innovation.
giving some drops would be nice, XP too. Levi hunting should give some reward of some kind. :-/
Right, it should give rewards, I'm just saying that I don't think my suggestion that they can continuously construct more armor for themselves would make it so they have to give much higher rewards.
You could probably add 1,000 armor every hour, which would be 24k a day. I think the Levy will spawn every 6 hours or something, and supposing the devs give us reasons to kill it, (like the rail gun advanced II) I don't think there will be much of a problem with its hull going off the charts. THE LEVY"S SPAWNED!!!
KILL KILL KILL
Heck you could add 25k an hour, depending on the loot.
Besides its already got over 500k (I'm guessing, someone correct me).
/givemoney Devs 2c
KILL KILL KILL
Heck you could add 25k an hour, depending on the loot.
Besides its already got over 500k (I'm guessing, someone correct me).
/givemoney Devs 2c
No raiding party is going to spend 8 hours kill something, either. In case you forgot, botting is hellaciously boring. Why would players go off and fight hordes of bots for hours on end to kill an insanely tough stationary object? It won't be fun, and a reward is the only reason people do it in other games. The novelty is going to wear off before it even reaches the live server, as it is.
I agree that large parties of players should be required to kill a Leviathan, but there has to be some reason to do it, some motivation, something. Maybe up the amount and variety of NPCs flitting about by a few orders of magnitude to give the universe more life, and have the hive attack them. That way we could defend the space lanes from rogue bots.
It's simply not fun to blast away at something for an hour or more for nothing. Clearing the system of bots is great and all, but it's meaningless and tedious without some motivation.
I agree that large parties of players should be required to kill a Leviathan, but there has to be some reason to do it, some motivation, something. Maybe up the amount and variety of NPCs flitting about by a few orders of magnitude to give the universe more life, and have the hive attack them. That way we could defend the space lanes from rogue bots.
It's simply not fun to blast away at something for an hour or more for nothing. Clearing the system of bots is great and all, but it's meaningless and tedious without some motivation.
The more armor it has =
Higher chance of spawning super cool awesomely Uber Item.
More XP for everyone in the sector.
Also killing a Leviathan gives you a Levy Badge!
I GOT THE LAST SHOT ON A LEVY!!!! WOOOOOOOOT!
AKA bragging rights.
BRING BACK THE AGT!!!!
Higher chance of spawning super cool awesomely Uber Item.
More XP for everyone in the sector.
Also killing a Leviathan gives you a Levy Badge!
I GOT THE LAST SHOT ON A LEVY!!!! WOOOOOOOOT!
AKA bragging rights.
BRING BACK THE AGT!!!!
the levi needs swarm rockets out of its turrets, not beams. SWARMS!!
seriously, no hive thing uses any type of non energy weapon. the levi's swarms could even bee unlimited ammo. that would be a great thing for it to have.
seriously, no hive thing uses any type of non energy weapon. the levi's swarms could even bee unlimited ammo. that would be a great thing for it to have.
Re: Starfisher
> No raiding party is going to spend 8 hours kill something, either.
I disagree, I can easily see a Leviathan being under continuous attack by a raiding party for several hours, if need be. Yes, individual members of the raiding party will come and go, but there would still be other players continuing the attack. Now, I can't see that being a common event, but it wouldn't be. These larger or longer raiding parties would only be necessary if a Leviathan built up significantly higher than normal armor. And that would take time, and not just any time, but it has to be time that the Leviathan is not being attacked. In order for the Leviathan to get this higher than normal armor it would have to not be attacked at all for weeks: if it is lightly attacked occasionally, it would take months, or never happen at all.
This is what I like most about this: it puts more control over the game world into the hands of the players, rather than the game engine. You don't want the Leviathan to build up a lot of armor? Fine, every week or two unload a Rag full of Gems & Stingrays on it. That will burn through all the additional armor it constructed for itself that week, and then some. And it doesn't have to be you, if any player attacks the Leviathan and does more than minute amounts of damage, then it won't ever build up any more armor than it normally has.
> In case you forgot, botting is hellaciously boring.
Botting is not hellaciously boring, it's hellaciously tedious, and that's the whole reason the devs are spending time changing the Hive, isn't it? Right now, I see two problems botting: the bot AI isn't very good, so it's not challenging, but even more than that, there is no sense of progress from botting. I kill a bot or group of bots, its replacement spawns immediately. I kill a Hive Queen, another Hive Queen spawns in the same system immediately. That's the big change with the new hive, we will be able to make visible progress against it. Kill a bot, the Hive Queen has to construct its replacement. Kill a Hive Queen, the Leviathan has to replace it. Kill a Leviathan, a bunch of other bots have to merge into its replacement.
> It won't be fun, and a reward is the only reason people do it in other games.
What? Why would anyone do anything in a game that they didn't consider fun? If there's some activity in a game, that I consider boring, there's no way I'm going to do it, even if it gives 133713371337 XP, or the Uber Thingamajiggy of the Grand Panjandrum. But I do a ton of things in games that I consider to be fun, even when they don't give a reward. Circle strafing asteroids doesn't give me squat, but I find I do that fairly often. Even if killing a Leviathan gives no reward (which is very much not something I'm suggesting), I'd still find it very fun to work with a group to kill it.
Oh, not that this matters, but the Leviathan isn't stationary right now, and when the devs finish the inverse kinematics so it can wiggle, it will be even more visibly moving.
> I agree that large parties of players should be required to kill a Leviathan,
> but there has to be some reason to do it, some motivation, something.
The primary motivation I see people having for killing Hive Queens and Leviathans is to stop the spread of the Hive. If we don't kill them, they will build more and more bots, and those bots will spread to any sector with 'roids, including station and WH sectors. If we want to stop this, we'll need to attack the source: the Hive Queens and the Leviathans.
> It's simply not fun to blast away at something for an hour or more for nothing.
> Clearing the system of bots is great and all, but it's meaningless and
> tedious without some motivation.
Heh, there have been times when I've been the only player in my side doing CtC, and I had no success (and therefore no reward) against the other side. Guess what? I still had fun. And there's motivation for clearing a system of bots: it makes everywhere in that system safe from bots. If that's not motivation enough for you, then you don't have to clear out the entire system. But I'd bet there's specific sectors you'd like to keep free of the hive: your home station sector, the WHs, the sector your favorite Heliocene 'roid.
Re: KixKizzle
> The more armor it has =
> Higher chance of spawning super cool awesomely Uber Item.
Where did the Leviathan get this super cool awesomely Uber Item? The Hive cannot innovate, every technology it has it got from scavenging. I'm not saying the Leviathan (and other hive bots) shouldn't drop items, I do think that would be pretty cool, but I don't think they should be unique, special items. What I'd like to see the hive bots dropping is faction specific equippment, that they have scavenged the technology for, and that the player might not have access to otherwise. I don't have enough Axia standing for AAP, but if I killed a bot it might drop some.
> More XP for everyone in the sector.
I could see that. How about, when the Leviathan is destroyed, everyone who damaged it gains combat XP in the amount of one tenth of the damage they did to the Leviathan.
Re: who? me?
I actually was somewhat disappointed when I found out the Leviathan had beam turrets. I would like it if there were some weapon technologies that humans had developed, that the Hive hadn't scavenged yet, and beam weapons were at the top of my list. I'd rather the Hive wasn't able to build beam weapons until it destroyed a capital ship that had beam weapons.
And I'd also like to see the Hive use non-energy weapons as well.
> No raiding party is going to spend 8 hours kill something, either.
I disagree, I can easily see a Leviathan being under continuous attack by a raiding party for several hours, if need be. Yes, individual members of the raiding party will come and go, but there would still be other players continuing the attack. Now, I can't see that being a common event, but it wouldn't be. These larger or longer raiding parties would only be necessary if a Leviathan built up significantly higher than normal armor. And that would take time, and not just any time, but it has to be time that the Leviathan is not being attacked. In order for the Leviathan to get this higher than normal armor it would have to not be attacked at all for weeks: if it is lightly attacked occasionally, it would take months, or never happen at all.
This is what I like most about this: it puts more control over the game world into the hands of the players, rather than the game engine. You don't want the Leviathan to build up a lot of armor? Fine, every week or two unload a Rag full of Gems & Stingrays on it. That will burn through all the additional armor it constructed for itself that week, and then some. And it doesn't have to be you, if any player attacks the Leviathan and does more than minute amounts of damage, then it won't ever build up any more armor than it normally has.
> In case you forgot, botting is hellaciously boring.
Botting is not hellaciously boring, it's hellaciously tedious, and that's the whole reason the devs are spending time changing the Hive, isn't it? Right now, I see two problems botting: the bot AI isn't very good, so it's not challenging, but even more than that, there is no sense of progress from botting. I kill a bot or group of bots, its replacement spawns immediately. I kill a Hive Queen, another Hive Queen spawns in the same system immediately. That's the big change with the new hive, we will be able to make visible progress against it. Kill a bot, the Hive Queen has to construct its replacement. Kill a Hive Queen, the Leviathan has to replace it. Kill a Leviathan, a bunch of other bots have to merge into its replacement.
> It won't be fun, and a reward is the only reason people do it in other games.
What? Why would anyone do anything in a game that they didn't consider fun? If there's some activity in a game, that I consider boring, there's no way I'm going to do it, even if it gives 133713371337 XP, or the Uber Thingamajiggy of the Grand Panjandrum. But I do a ton of things in games that I consider to be fun, even when they don't give a reward. Circle strafing asteroids doesn't give me squat, but I find I do that fairly often. Even if killing a Leviathan gives no reward (which is very much not something I'm suggesting), I'd still find it very fun to work with a group to kill it.
Oh, not that this matters, but the Leviathan isn't stationary right now, and when the devs finish the inverse kinematics so it can wiggle, it will be even more visibly moving.
> I agree that large parties of players should be required to kill a Leviathan,
> but there has to be some reason to do it, some motivation, something.
The primary motivation I see people having for killing Hive Queens and Leviathans is to stop the spread of the Hive. If we don't kill them, they will build more and more bots, and those bots will spread to any sector with 'roids, including station and WH sectors. If we want to stop this, we'll need to attack the source: the Hive Queens and the Leviathans.
> It's simply not fun to blast away at something for an hour or more for nothing.
> Clearing the system of bots is great and all, but it's meaningless and
> tedious without some motivation.
Heh, there have been times when I've been the only player in my side doing CtC, and I had no success (and therefore no reward) against the other side. Guess what? I still had fun. And there's motivation for clearing a system of bots: it makes everywhere in that system safe from bots. If that's not motivation enough for you, then you don't have to clear out the entire system. But I'd bet there's specific sectors you'd like to keep free of the hive: your home station sector, the WHs, the sector your favorite Heliocene 'roid.
Re: KixKizzle
> The more armor it has =
> Higher chance of spawning super cool awesomely Uber Item.
Where did the Leviathan get this super cool awesomely Uber Item? The Hive cannot innovate, every technology it has it got from scavenging. I'm not saying the Leviathan (and other hive bots) shouldn't drop items, I do think that would be pretty cool, but I don't think they should be unique, special items. What I'd like to see the hive bots dropping is faction specific equippment, that they have scavenged the technology for, and that the player might not have access to otherwise. I don't have enough Axia standing for AAP, but if I killed a bot it might drop some.
> More XP for everyone in the sector.
I could see that. How about, when the Leviathan is destroyed, everyone who damaged it gains combat XP in the amount of one tenth of the damage they did to the Leviathan.
Re: who? me?
I actually was somewhat disappointed when I found out the Leviathan had beam turrets. I would like it if there were some weapon technologies that humans had developed, that the Hive hadn't scavenged yet, and beam weapons were at the top of my list. I'd rather the Hive wasn't able to build beam weapons until it destroyed a capital ship that had beam weapons.
And I'd also like to see the Hive use non-energy weapons as well.
Why wouldn't the hive use beam weapons?
Cap ships have been around longer than hive bots acording to the storyline anyway. So one has to have gotten destried by a hive queen somwhere along the line.
I think that the leviathin should drop existing items untill the exploration expancion is in effect. That could be one way to introduce players to the idea that there is stuff out there worth risking being stranded in a far off system for. After all where did the hive get that hyper-death-ray, or that anti-matter torpedo?
If the lviathin increases it's own armor over time it should do so at a conservative rate at firsy untill we can get a better idea of the long term rate of leviatrhin attacks. After all players will be able to clear their favorat sectors without ever attacking a leviathin, so it may go unherassed for some time.
Cap ships have been around longer than hive bots acording to the storyline anyway. So one has to have gotten destried by a hive queen somwhere along the line.
I think that the leviathin should drop existing items untill the exploration expancion is in effect. That could be one way to introduce players to the idea that there is stuff out there worth risking being stranded in a far off system for. After all where did the hive get that hyper-death-ray, or that anti-matter torpedo?
If the lviathin increases it's own armor over time it should do so at a conservative rate at firsy untill we can get a better idea of the long term rate of leviatrhin attacks. After all players will be able to clear their favorat sectors without ever attacking a leviathin, so it may go unherassed for some time.