http://www.megatokyo.com/index.php?strip_id=549

Read all of Piro's rant. The second half should deal with the Thread topic. Enjoy. :D

Just so you know, I just took the name from the comic, I'm in no way affiliated:P

I don't understand, Celkan, are you saying America is bad, or the invasions of privacy are bad, or the frivolous lawsuits are bad... :-\

That's what America is based around, camps:P

Just so you know, I just took the name from the comic, I'm in no way affiliated:P

Piro: Well duhhhhhh... :P I don't think Fred has time for Vendetta.

Camps: It's all of it. This country went down the t00bs after 9-11. Patriot Act? What's so patriotic about it? It breaks almost every one of our civil rights. *cough* pursuit of happiness *cough*

I mean, *IF* (not that this is true) reading books on how to make homemade explosives and firearms is my hobby, who gave the government the right to judge me based on it? Who the futz says I'm gonna go be the next Bin Laden? Well, obviously the Patriot Act. If I read militant books/books about things that can be used to kill people, I'm a danger "to the American People."

My response to any accusations of that type would be: "You think *I* read it for a nefarious purpose? Heh, try my friend over there... he knows more about this stuff than me, and *he's* an anarchist."

Celkan, I think you misread the Patriot Act. I am the person in your situation. The government bothers me nada. I know how to make bombs, IEDs, I research storming and CQB tactics, the gov't leaves me alone. What the PA allows the feds to do is what they were able to do before the '90 - '96 crippling of the intel community. They really aren't getting new, broad powers--just getting what they once had, and making allowances for changing technology (the dawn of the internet, cell phones, etc.).

Too bad your government is even 'recomending' (=read, pass these laws or die) their laws to us. It must sucks living in the USA...

Let me show ya'll my view on the U.S.A.

Pro:

*Everything is cheap, really, a house for like what? $50.000? You can't even buy a garage for that over here.
*Low taxes (main reason why everything is so cheap probably)
*BIG BIG BIG the food is huge, the cars are huge, the buildings are huge, the landscape is huge, really an American car is HUGE compared to all the tiny cars here
*They rule the world, it's good to live in the top country; because then you can say: "yeah! My country is kicking those **** ass!"
*I think it's easy for foreigners (well, if you come from a "developed" nation that is), to integrate into the USA; or that is just some odd and bizarre image I have which is completely based on fiction.
*TV, 200 channels or something? Wow, we only have a few national channels (10 or so), and a few foreign ones.
*Wealthy, Americans are the richest people in the world (the average that is)
*NASA, much "cooler" than ESA
*Probably some more...

Con:

*BIG BIG BIG, everything is big, not good for the environment and it probably causes your roads to get crammed full of cars much easier
*They rule the world, this causes the government and *some* Americans to become a bit too self-confident...
*Not very aware of the rest of the world, "could you point where France is on this map?" "ehmm..." <points at Africa>
*Religion, God-this, God-that; you even have God in your national anthem; the average American probably can't even do an abortion without being annoyed by "pro-life" demonstrators, every single reference to sex must be removed from TV, those awful "beep" "beep" "beep" on the TV, ignoring scientific facts, backward schools, you can't pick up a hooker legally, allowing Amish to live undisturbed, V-chips and of course covering up all the nude statues.
*TV, adds, (dumb) commercials, brain-washing.
*Law suits, law suits, law suits; you can sue McDonald's there and *win* if they didn't warn that the coffee is hot. Here you just get a "don't be stupid and sod off" if you would try that.
*Hospital insurances, "uhh.. well I'm sorry sir, you don't have an insurance so sod off and get your leg put back on somewhere else"
*War on drugs, you can't smoke weed without being at risk of getting busted by some cop. (not that I smoke weed, but I still think making it illegal is pretty absurd)
*Guns
*Unfair distribution of wealth, education, etc..etc.. if you are born poor, you'll probably die poor too; here you have much better odds if you are born poor.
*Probably some more...

"What the PA allows the feds to do is what they were able to do before the '90 - '96 crippling of the intel community. They really aren't getting new, broad powers--just getting what they once had, and making allowances for changing technology (the dawn of the internet, cell phones, etc.)."

-Never, in the history of the United States of America has the Federal Government had the power to issue searches without a warrant or detain citizens indefinitely without a lawyer or a trial. It's a violation of the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments.

--edit: Correction: Once, during the Civil War, President Lincoln allowed the government to do just that. It was later ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. --


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

-See. Can't search or seize property without a warrant and probable cause. And the places, people, and objects being search have to be DESCRIBED. Hidden wiretaps don't do that.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

-Can't be denied the rights of life, liberty, or property without the DUE PROCESS OF LAW. If you detain someone you have to put them on trial first!

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

-Key words, "speedy" and "public" trail. Detaining prisoners in secret, refusing to disclose their names or their locations, and refusing to notify their families indefinitely is in plain violation of this amendment. As an aside, that's not the type of thing that's healthy for a Democracy. Granting the government the such broad authority to bereave people of their rights without the consent of the people is the first step towards establishing a dictatorship.

The Patriot Act has been nothing but an attempt to take away the powers of the judiciary to check the powers of the Executive Branch. We had checks and balanced instituted for a reason.



"Everything is cheap, really, a house for like what? $50.000? "
-$50,000 might cover a half-acre of land in some rural part of the country, but an average middle class house goes between $100,000 to $250,000. And the prices are quickly rising. But don't worry, according to the Wall Street Journal, it means the economy is doing well when everything gets more expensive. Makes sense right? Right?. . . aw screw it. We're all going to hell in a handbasket.

"allowing Amish to live undisturbed"
-What's wrong with this? It's their land, let them live however they please. They're not affecting any of us and their lifestyle guarantees that they won't be polluting the environment.

Magus.. i'm sitting on 15 acres of land a 3 story house, there is a 2 car garage less than 50 feet away, and a 1 car at the bottem of the hill.. 4900 square feet, all for only $250000. It is cheap in a lot of places.

as for Sheean's facts...

I have no problems with the amish eather. Sure they're a little wierd, but that's their life.

Guns? What's wring with guns? If i want to shoot something, i feel i have the right to. And for now i do.

I'll admit, all the lawsuits and Religion stuff bugs me. People shouldn't get cash for being stupid, but that's really you're only correct fact about it.

Hookers -- There are places where you can

They only beep shit and fuck on TV.

There are A LOT of references to sex on TV.

All the god stuff in the anthom and pledge of allegence -- People are fighting to get that stuff changed.

Sorry, but your views of us are as skewed as our views of you. :)

*Everything is cheap, really, a house for like what? $50.000? You can't even buy a garage for that over here.
-Maybe in rural Texas or something. Houses here in Brooline (a bit off Boston) are going for about $1,000,000 each. Luckily, we bought about 20 years ago, before prices skyrocketed... -.-

*BIG BIG BIG the food is huge, the cars are huge, the buildings are huge, the landscape is huge, really an American car is HUGE compared to all the tiny cars here
-The huge cars are also gigantic gas guzzlers. I can't wait for the day when gas prices go up to 10 bucks a gallon, just so people will start using hybrids and thinking about not driving so much.

*They rule the world, it's good to live in the top country; because then you can say: "yeah! My country is kicking those **** ass!"
-There's a reason everyboday hates us...

*TV, 200 channels or something? Wow, we only have a few national channels (10 or so), and a few foreign ones.
-Most of the channels are absolute crap. Besides, you can probably see the DirecTV or Dish Network satellites over in the UK...

every single reference to sex must be removed from TV, those awful "beep" "beep" "beep" on the TV, ignoring scientific facts, backward schools, you can't pick up a hooker legally, allowing Amish to live undisturbed, V-chips and of course covering up all the nude statues.
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This WAS called common decency. Then we had the liberal revolution in the 60's.

"*They rule the world, it's good to live in the top country; because then you can say: "yeah! My country is kicking those **** ass!"

Um, it's called Realpolitik, and we just happen to be better at it than anyone else.

"*Guns"

What's wrong with weapons? We have too many, or too little? You made no point there, just stated a noun.

"*Hospital insurances, "uhh.. well I'm sorry sir, you don't have an insurance so sod off and get your leg put back on somewhere else""

Hospitals are required to treat any person that walks in the door. That's why so many hospitals along the southern border are closing. Illegal immigrants come in needing treatment or prenatal care, and the hospitals cannot refuse them. Of course, they never get compensated, and mark it as a loss.

"*Not very aware of the rest of the world, "could you point where France is on this map?" "ehmm..." <points at Africa>"

What the hell?

"*Unfair distribution of wealth, education, etc..etc.. if you are born poor, you'll probably die poor too; here you have much better odds if you are born poor."

Here, you are just uninformed. I actually thought you were talking about another country. Here, in America, barring the perpetually poor (which make up a fraction of a percent), the people in the bottom 20% - 5% in terms of wealth are moving through that bracket (i.e. rebounding). People who have a healthy work ethic never stay in that bracket for more than six months.

I can name you many self-made people in America. You have the right to starve, is what we say. No work, no eat. Harrison Ford was a carpenter before he became a movie actor. Some say he's one of the best movie actors of the past century. It just utterly defies reality to say that those born here are probably going to die poor.

"Here, you are just uninformed. "

Actually, he isn't.

http://www.lcurve.org/

Hmm, that's showing more of the distribution of wealth rather than the fluidity of or how easy it is to move through income brackets. There is no denying there are very rich and very poor in the USA. There is also no denying that the very poor here as Camps states, can move on up barring incompetence.

And good luck finding a house here for 50k that isn't in an Iowa corn field 500 miles from a metropolis. In a decent sized city you can't even find an abandoned crack house for 50k. I see that points already been addressed though. My house just appraised at $210,000 and I live accross the street from HAP housing (my towns version of 'the projects')

Yeah, I hate our TV. We remove all sex and replace it with violence. Its perverted if you ask me. You need both for healthy television viewing.

Come on the Amish make sense, it's the Mennonites that are creepy. They want it both ways, whats up with that?

As to geographical knowledge ... well our country is as big as some continents holding several countries. With several country sized states. Can you point to Nebraska on an unmarked US map? Who cares where France is anyway?

"My house just appraised at $210,000 and I live accross the street from HAP housing (my towns version of 'the projects')"

Oh, I forgot to mention... Those million dollar houses? One or two blocks from housing projects.

" every single reference to sex must be removed from TV, those awful "beep" "beep" "beep" on the TV, ignoring scientific facts, backward schools, you can't pick up a hooker legally, allowing Amish to live undisturbed, V-chips and of course covering up all the nude statues."

Heh, the V-chip... I remember those... I think they're in every TV, but they're off by default... :D Yeah, the censors (visual and audible) suck... Same goes for the schools here... My sister (in 7th grade) is currently using the same history book as the one she used in 5th grade. I used to go to the same school as her, and the same year we got a bunch of new telescopes from the PTO (we barely used them), we had a massive paper shortage. Goddamned administration...

Oh, and the Amish make damn good cookies! ^_^

Not just cookies dude, they make f***in awsome bread and pie. Best i've ever had.

I agree, the Amish, Dutch (Deutch for all you who care to know), and Mennonites really do enrich the culture in Pennsylvania and the Northern Midwest.

Lol, Hoax.... I was about to say, and so what if we can't locate France on an unmarked European map. What difference does it make?

BTW, Magus, that site is pure Democratic propaganda. He wants voters to be informed, and then suggest they find information on political candidates from the "Office of Democratic Whip of Congress." Nothing against Pelosi, but don't think you think that's violation of interests?

Notice he lists the gray lady (NYT) and Washington Post, but fails to mention the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times, or National Review.

Notice also he lists "Antiwarmonger," "MoveOn.org," "ChickenHawk," "The Onion," "FAIR," "Free Speach [sic] Radio News," "Palestine Chronicle," and "Christian Science Monitor"--all left of center, if not extremist (in MoveOn.org's case).

I would be very wary to quote such a partisan source on any subject. He has a party line to toe, be mindful of it.

EDIT: I read through it. He's definitely toeing the party line. Somehow, those who made it themselves should be taxed to give the crack addict more welfare. His reasoning is messed up as well:

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Is the vertical spike just Bill Gates?   NO.  In 1997 over 144,000 tax returns were filed with adjusted gross incomes of $1 million or more.  As the vertical spike rises it thins down to a few individuals, but there is a growing class of billionaires that collectively holds a substantial fraction of the wealth of the country.
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The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that 293,081,417 people live in the United States. Subtract out 13,000,000 of illegal aliens (thereabouts), and you're left with the nice round number of 280,000,000. Mr. L-Curve states that we should comprehend facts if they're spun, so allow me to spin. The amount of people who fired tax returns with gross incomes of $1 million or more amount to .051% of the total US population. (144,000 / 280 million). IS THAT REALLY THAT BIG OF A PROBLEM!?!?? Fifty-one one thousandths of a percent of the population have over a million dollars, HORRORS!

More liberal logic:
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The flat tax would shift the burden downscale even more.  The sales pitch for this shift usually focuses on "simplification."  Simplification is unrelated to the issue of who the money is coming from.  You could have a simple progressive tax just as easily as a simple flat tax. The proposal to eliminate the income tax entirely would be disastrous.  Those on the vertical spike would escape virtually all of their obligations and the burden of government would be born almost entirely by those of us on the horizontal spike, both through increases in other forms of taxation and reduction of services.  The income tax originally taxed ONLY the vertical spike.  This is the direction tax reform needs to take if it is to be truly considered "reform."
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So we tax the rich, give to the poor. Never mind that this isn't Robin Hood!! Those that are rich in this country earned their money! A flat tax would "burden" the middle and lower classes more BECAUSE THEY PAY SO LITTLE TAX ALREADY! That is what is being unsaid! Taxes can amount to 90% for those that make several million. That is why the "rich" benefit largely from nearly any tax cut, because they're already paying so much!

A simple and elegant reply to this thread...

No, America is not that bad. <---PERIOD

I agree. =P

Let's just say that most peoples view of America here are about the same, but with 75% of all the "pro" removed.. yeah, I know; sad.