Something I wondered about here. I've read the charter (oh how little we can say in so many words) and the oath, however Im still wondering.

Are you little more than a poor excuse for an organized griefing guild that can camp wormholes at will, attack anyone, wether hostile or not, and then call on the guild members to protect you if you get sent back to home station?

Or do you actually intend to act on your so-called oath?

Yes. This is a very hostile tone, on purpouse. I'm tired of the windowdressing and holier-than-thou of theese wannabe protectors who double up as griefers and PK's.

I want to thank you for this post Spider. Not that I associate with the IDF at all, but it has made me take a step back and reread my guild charter to make sure that this sort of situation does not arise in my Guild, and to modify the charter to express our intentions in simple to understand terms :)

1) Protect Itanis
2) Protect Itani traders
3) Destroy Serco convoys and their escorts
4) Destroy hostile Sercos and Serco-affiliated UITs (destroy, not grief)
5) Aid guildmembers

Please give me reports at roguelazer@itani.roguelazer.com of any griefing or offences. I can't police all my pilots if nobody tells me what's going wrong.

And hey, I wrote that charter in, like, 10 minutes. I fully intend to revise it whenever A) I find the council or B) I have time to do it myself.

Ah. Then I shall get in touch with you with regards to your various members digressions against pacifistic players.

If your group seriously wants to try and be a defense force, I hope your members will at least try to adhere to some standards. If not, I hope you will change your description from something so pompous and righteous and rather stand up saying that you are an organized group of griefers who will take such actions against anyone non-itani.

I've followed by the IDF code entirely. you may see me in battles with serco frequently, but I have still never been the first to fire. I do tend to stay in between CTC systems just for a good tactical position, but I don't bother passing-by serco unless they shoot at me. (or are nasties like spider) :)

I still suck at PVP. I want the IDF to have more organized training sessions so that we can learn how to stand up against the more experienced players.

I'm a wellknown nasty, and I tend to run around with valuable purified xithicide ore, it seems. ;)

but, Glad that you do, Apex. Not all are like that, and thats something I wanted to pick up on. Do you answer a guild request for help? Do you check the behaviour of such players?

Even if you are "honourable", if you don't hold your members to that standard, you all just become the shield of protection for the griefers.

I also follow a code of honor for combat. It's impossible to screen all of our applicants for behavior issues conflicting with the spirit of the IDF, but I believe that our Lieutenants and Commander do the best they can with the little information that they are given about recruits.

It saddens me that there are IDF members acting without honor, and I will do my best to halt such behavior, and I'm sure that the rest of the Council and Officers feel the same way.

I ask you not to judge the IDF on a whole based on the actions of a few members. We will work to solve these issues, and will hopefully bring a good name to the IDF wether it be Itani thanking us for protection, or Serco respect for our honor in combat.

Well, I'm glad that you will try, however unless there is an obvious majority of you who hold to those rules of conduct and honours the behaviour, and any transgressions are publicly put down, you will appear as little other than ruffains.

I hope you understand my concern here.

I do understand your concern and will talk to my men about their actions. Hopefully this wills top grifers if there are any and other uncalled for secro attacks!

Good for the Secros (whom-so-ever they are), but what about the SERCO!? Huh? What about us?

I have observed a number of fights with IDF personel involved. I have never seen any kind of griefing by IDF pilots, neither have I seen attacks on noobs or non-hostiles. I am not sure what Spider is talking about, but I would not take it too serious until somebody more reputable complains about it. Spider's SAF guild is well known for griefing mining noobs. Clean up your own house before whining about the IDF. There have been many attempts to break up Itani guilds before. This is probably just another one of them.

Disclaimer: I am not a member of IDF, and I don't intend to become a member.

"Spider's SAF guild is well known for griefing mining noobs."

No.
Perhaps you could say "Spider is well known for (...)", if _you_ saw that. "well known" is allways a result of rumors and propaganda.

But you cannot say that "his" SAF (lol, he owns the SAF?) is a griefer guild, because there is no official charter for SAF now.

There are two Itani training drones in the SAF. If you are judging the whole SAF for one player of it, you could also say "The SAF is a guild of Itanis" ...

If you see a SAF member, you cannot say what kind of player that is. If you watched the forums here, you should know that the SAF is only an attempt to participate in the convoys (ctc), to protect their members against griefers and give Serco a chance to stand the obviously overpowered Valk.

There are Traders and helpfull people like Spellcast, and there are honorfull Pirates (Pirates are not griefers) like Phoenix in the SAF. It is very mixed.

P.S.:
godsize_dwo does understand Spiders posts, I think every member of the IDF understands it well. (look at macguys post...)
That post was obviously written to clearify that there is a need to look at the IDF's rules written on their page.
There was no "whining" and there was no " attempts to break up Itani guilds"...
Heck you are not a member of the IDF and you did not understand _anything_ in spiders post... why are you answering?

andreas: are you having slight difficulties comprehending that I'm personally -expecting- and more or less -inviting- the assaults from IDF forces? I'm a well known annoyance of that part of the universe, and will gladly take the practice.

Also, to re-inforce the previous post. the SAF that I am a member of, does -not- have a charter nor guild rules of behaviour, and we will not enforce our members in that sense.

Alright listen, this is getting stupid and pointless, I get the point, the IDF gets the point. I'll talk to my man and in conjunction with roguelazer I will make sure they do not grief or PK people anymore if they are doing so. No more attacks on un-hostile secro. Unless of corse they are involved in ctc, which is pretty much free game.(if i'm wrong please correct me on this roguelazer)

Don't go down to personal attacks, people. I have recieved additional information from Spider and the IA department is investigating it as of now. We don't need to talk about the SAF here, because this is about IDF. Take it to somebody else's forums...

BTW: Spider, I can't e-mail you. Your server has rejected mail from both my roguelazer.com and comcast.net SMTP servers with "Reason: blocked_due_to_spam". It also rejected mail from my personal server in my bedroom which I just turned the sendmail daemon on 5 minutes ago and which I guarantee has not sent any spam. Your mailserver is broken!

The IDF charter has been updated, and I'm somewhat more hopeful now.
http://itani.roguelazer.com/index.php?action=charter

Just who are these "Secro" that Macguy keeps referring to? This Serco wants to know.

Macguy can't speel too wheel :/
(haha just kidding, i keep spelling that wrong for some reason)

Spider: "The IDF charter has been updated, and I'm somewhat more hopeful now."

More hopeful perhaps, but Spider, you're a complete and utter hypocrite. Spider was attacking the NPC traders around Edras Crossroads, and decided to blow my slow, lumbering, fully loaded, centaur up because I was IDF (his words, not mine).

Eventually we settled it with a duel (I lost), but really Spider, you have the gall to call the IDF out for griefing, when you're nothing but a pirate yourself! A pirate, I might add, without a smidgen of honour - you gave me no warning, no demand for cargo or credits, just attacked me - I didn't retaliate (bit difficult in a centaur - oh, I think I might have fired off some swarms, but just to keep you busy - they failed unfortunately) but ran for the station - you pursued me until you'd finished me off. I'd like to know what you've slipped the UIT, as I didn't see them troubling you for firing on a ship in protected space.

Aton-Cho Bashor

It is a very entertaining thread, reminding me of an old French saying "c'est l'hopital qui se fout de la charité".