not flameing just admireing the words...


"By this I mean out-of-character, clique-heavy and ridden with cruel and criminal behavior."


Sounds like a party! Where do I sign up?

"...And then Sir Launcelot spoke to the loathely lady. "OMG UR T3H UGLY HAG!!" Displeased by his curt tone, the woman who had been so beautiful by day buried her hideous face in the pillows of his bed and wept, crying "STFU U COXOR! UR T3H FAGG0TZ! SUX MY COX!"

this is the cooleset thing ive read. ever.

homestar "laughtermakesbabycthulhucry" runner

/me verifies that guides can /kill people

Except it's "/oper /kill"

aaanyhow, a lot of the rp-heavy muds have a sort of RP point system, where behaving like you're supposed to gets you points, and you really can't do much without the points.
For example, having a big bunch of points might let you get into the military, which in turn would let you buy better weapons. And in the military, those above you might give you more points which you could spend on stuff, or hoard up.

This is the second part in a weekly series of open threads to brainstorm on problems that will potentially face the Vendetta community when the final game is released.

This week's subject is General Nonphysical Misanthropy

---=READ THIS!=---
Let me make something clear from the start. This is about the ravaging, crude hordes that populate the internet in general, and who will storm our proverbial gates the day the game is opened, looking to make our pretty little universe just like the rest of the MMORPG world. By this I mean out-of-character, clique-heavy and ridden with cruel and criminal behavior. This isn't about any one person or group. This isn't even about our community. If you think our community is Bad (tm), you haven't seen Bad(tm) yet. This thread is about creating a list of potential problems, so that they may be fixed at an early point in the code, and not patched haphazardly at the last minute. Let me reiterate: This is not a discussion about us, or our community. This is not to become a flamewar, so let's get it out: DO NOT use players from our community, current or former, as examples. EVER. Don't dance around names, dropping hints either. You're not fooling anyone. This doesn't mean you can't reference the game universe at any point in it's development, just don't name names, or even infer them. Just don't do it, and we'll stay on target. If someone does, myself included, just ignore the post. Don't respond to it. If they really want it said, they'll find a way to say it that's acceptable in the context of this Brainstorm.

Oh, and one more thing: Stay on topic. This isn't about technical issues, or exploits or anything else. Those will be addressed in future Brainstorms. If you have a C.H.U.D. in the archives (as I do), put him on a leash and make him behave for this thread, at least.
---=Thanks!=---

Opening Statement:

Every MMORPG on the net to this date has had to deal with those who simply don't want to play along. Anyone who has grown up with, or taken care of young children knows this behavior well. Let's say you're playing Candyland. These guys are the little 3-year-old who runs through the middle of the board screaming. On Purpose. Repeatedly. You know the type I'm talking about. These guys don't care about your game ; they want your attention, and it makes them feel powerful to mould your universe to their form. This week's brainstorm is to discuss ways to keep people in character, to cut down on nonphysical harassment (e.g. chat-based), and overall keep the universe ticking.

Let me remind participants once again that a condition of participation is that no names are used in examples. When talking about chat, it gets sticky because nothing makes a better example than a real player. However, this will quickly degrade the topic into a flamewar. See the ---=READ THIS!=--- section above for details.

Prove it!!

(/me switches names:p)

If I behaved like some of those bratty kids who run across the CandyLand board when I was a child I would have tasted the back of my daddy's hand. You can be sure I wouldn't have done that again. So, I think the solution to this issue is the same thing. Give them the back of someone's hand. Mute them, ban them, sick bots on them to greif them until they leave. Punish them for being assholes and if all goes well, they'll stop. That's something we should consider for the final release actually. Giving guides the ability to send uber-bots after assholes. Then the dialogue text can read:
"And lo the guide raised the uber-bots up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless these Thine uber-bots that, with them, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy.'

And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu--"

*agrees with Pavan* It may be useful to be able to IP ban the really bad ones, though. Of course, once Guild starts charging money, they'll have extra power (assuming they have a clause in the EULA that allows them to terminate accounts and keep the money).

Skip a bit brother.

I think you guys are missing the point. Ctishman is talking about keeping players in-character. When faced with a better opponent, the tendency is to trashtalk the player into making a mistake. In defense of the measure, it's inducing your opponent into making a decision out of anger. Arguing against the measure, it destroys an aura of role-playing to see the trash scroll through on the screen.

Binds are naturally a great idea, instead of yelling out a big "BOOYAH loser, you were 0\/\/ |\|3d!" you simply hit a key and say "Target destroyed." However, to a certain extent, it's impossible to limit non-uniform communication between players. It's possible that the most uniform conduct you'd get is guild subordinates taking and executing orders from a superior officer (my choice of words are rather romantic, however) with a sharp "Yes, sir."

Another possibility is destroying any global chat capabilities outside a station, or even all-together. In your ship, you have your national radio frequency, your guild frequency, and your emergency (general broadband, distress signal stuff, available to everyone in your sector) frequency. In the station you could have access to the entire IM/email/chat room stuff reminiscent of Tribes 2.

That would be good. However, it'd also be nice if you could buy extension modules for your in-ship radio that give it better capabilities (e.g. longer range, ID spoofing [make the message seem as though it's coming from someone else]).

Interesting ideas, all. I do see the appeal of quick-use numerical binds, but from two years of watching Tribes 2, with its 100+ highly topical voice binds, I can say that the average player didn't bother to learn that <exaggerated apocryphal example>5-3-3-2-1 made your character say "I have the flag and am heading northeast, but am being pursued by two shrikes and a heavy" in a deep growly voice. Instead, they were far more likely to use TeamSpeak, or just type

<[BiT]Torrent>OMG WTF HLP
<[BiT]Torrent>NE W/FLG HVY CMING
<[BiT]Torrent>HLEP!!!!1

and hope someone could decode their panicked screed. Yes, this gets the message across, but it breaks the game's atmosphere. I mean, when was the last time you read a book like this?

...And then Sir Launcelot spoke to the loathely lady. "OMG UR T3H UGLY HAG!!" Displeased by his curt tone, the woman who had been so beautiful by day buried her hideous face in the pillows of his bed and wept, crying "STFU U COXOR! UR T3H FAGG0TZ! SUX MY COX!"

Atmosphere is not just setting. Putting gamers into Camelot isn't going to make them behave with honor and humility. Putting them in space ships won't make them brave explorers. The target gaming audience (not the older demographic targeted by this test) isn't older than twenty on the top end. In the end, we're dealing with a generation of gamer that grew up playing Quake II and III, not Dungeons and Dragons. They don't know how to roleplay, and to them, it seems like a waste of time when they could be out fragging people. People will find ways around imposed rules, or just wait until no guides are active to do their out-of-character chatting. It's the old problem of leading a horse to water. You can't force him to drink, but I'm sure that there's a way to make him want to drink.

I have never touched Dungeons and Dragons in my life. I'm 18 and I'm sure a lot of people on here are younger. Many of those young people are, actually, quite mature. It's just a handful of maladjusted ones that are a pain. I still think a /kill command for guides would be nice. Someone goes OC for too long, they get a warning. They do it again, they get a sterner warning. They do it again, uber-bots. Then, finally, a lightning bolt zips out of space and blows them to bits saying something like: "Ranal Ape Me was destroyed by the guardians."

Or, better yet, an OC tax. Every time you go out of character you get fined a few credits.

It would be nice if the ingame filter filtered 1337sp3ak as well. Whenever a number is put inbetween letters with no space it automatically gets translated into its proper letter.

To clarify, guides can /kill already.

WARNING! The content of this post is, unfortunately, a repeat of about 5 other posts I just returned from reading. Continue reading at great risk of boredom! Sorry.

I think we will all find that making people behave in game is as likely as making people behave IRL. To expand on genka's thoughts, I think that the reputation system would be a possible way of curbing some bad behavior. The lower the rep level the more restrictions on game play, such as the inability to dock at certain stations, or the inability to buy certain ships and weapons? What if your level of reputation affected what cargo you could buy, or what sector you could travel to, thus making it difficult to complete missions? What if in order to restore your reputation you had to go on certain missions of mercy? Delivering food to war torn sectors for little money? I admit, I am NO PROGRAMMER, have no idea if this could be implemented or how it would work. As much as having bots grief the griefers sounds like a good idea, most of the baddies in online gaming (I'll use my son's experience on JKII) enjoy being bad and being punished. Unless of course that punishment is a restriction on game play. Being killed over and over is just entertainment for some. Okay, enough, blah blah blah Sally Ride!

*Note to Ctishman: You are my f*cking hero! Do you know how long it has been since I've read something that made me laugh so hard that coffee came out my nose? LMFAO!

"...And then Sir Launcelot spoke to the loathely lady. "OMG UR T3H UGLY HAG!!" Displeased by his curt tone, the woman who had been so beautiful by day buried her hideous face in the pillows of his bed and wept, crying "STFU U COXOR! UR T3H FAGG0TZ! SUX MY COX!"

Sally Ride

It seems people are more of the mind that the devs should implement a system for dealing with OOC players in the game as it stands today. Nobody has suggested that the overall tone of the game be modified, with less focus on combat. As ctishman pointed out, the current gaming model attracts people who are used to games like Unreal, Quake and Counterstrike, games which are so twitch focused and impersonal that flinging insults at your opponents is simply another exercise in rapid hand motion. In order to keep the bad behavior to a minimum, the game needs to engage a players higher emotional and cognitive functions, not their reflexes. Fast paced, action oriented gameplay should be limited, and replaced by situations that require the player to step back and think, augmented by a clever story that makes the player a part of the puzzle. After all, do you really think people playing Uru (Myst online) are going to say "OMG I 0\/\/ |\|3d U l00Z3rs at that puzzle?" as often as they would playing Quake? Somehow I doubt it. The root of the problem is target audience; we should be trying to attract the kids from diplomacy club, not the freshmen football team.

Adding to what tempest said, being nice to each other might be instilled into the game by a system where advancement wouldn't be possible without the cooperation of your fellow players. Such as, if you're not a very nice person, you will have no chance at all of getting, for example, good weapons or maybe missions of a sort.
From my view point a lot of people (most of the vendetta population) feel no need of being nice to people unless they need something from said people. If they did need to be nice, then they just might be.

That's a really good point genka. Even money is so plentiful that people give it to strangers.

Hmm. A balance must be reached between the need for cooperation and the formation of gangs. See, if people associate for advancement, cliques and "frats" will form, alienating new players. How will we promote these groups while simultaneously enabling the new player to jump in and be satisfied, then go out looking for more?
In my opinion this goes back to the question of being the best. Everyone wants to lead a glorious group or clan. I wouldn't want to labor for hundreds of game-hours to become boss of Mithrilite Refinery Pipefitters local #212. However, who wouldn't want to be an Itani general or Serco warlord? There's got to be an incentive for people to fill the mundane holes in society, or the job should be handed to A.I., because for damn sure no player's gonna volunteer for it.

Of course everyone can't hold a position of high status because then it looses it's value. In my view, the fundamental problem with online games is that the "goal" is to become better than others by repeatedly performing some action, namely killing NPCs, and racking up points. An ideal online environment would be rich enough that the player could be satisfied simply by having a large number of meaningful interactions and experiences, to a point where the game would no longer be goal oriented. Instead of competing for the #1 spot, players would tell each other interesting stories of their adventures in space, and give directions to places where such adventures might be found. I'll discuss this in more detail when I'm not feeling as tired.

Its simple, allow only 1 account per Ip adress. Strike 1, wipe the offending character, strike 2, wipe the whole account making them start over. Strike 3 Permanent ban, and if their perma banned, have them pay $50 to get unbanned. Or if they don't want to return after being banned, make them finish out the years monthly payments on the game by having them sign a contract agreeing to this when first signing up.