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1) What are all the penalties for attacking someone in guaded space?
2) If someone attacks you, are you and anyone around you able to attack them back without suffering those penalties?
3) Does the initial attacker suffer the penalties whether someone attacks them back or not?
2) If someone attacks you, are you and anyone around you able to attack them back without suffering those penalties?
3) Does the initial attacker suffer the penalties whether someone attacks them back or not?
1) What are all the penalties for attacking someone in guaded space?
depends on reputation. if you kill player with admired or POS (Pillar Of Society) local reputation (Serco, UIT, Corvus, TPG, etc.) you will be penalized for about -1000 reputation. If you want to kill without consequences - kill in grey.
2) If someone attacks you, are you and anyone around you able to attack them back without suffering those penalties?
Again, depends on reputation in monitored sectors.
3) Does the initial attacker suffer the penalties whether someone attacks them back or not?
no
depends on reputation. if you kill player with admired or POS (Pillar Of Society) local reputation (Serco, UIT, Corvus, TPG, etc.) you will be penalized for about -1000 reputation. If you want to kill without consequences - kill in grey.
2) If someone attacks you, are you and anyone around you able to attack them back without suffering those penalties?
Again, depends on reputation in monitored sectors.
3) Does the initial attacker suffer the penalties whether someone attacks them back or not?
no
1) faction lose on the attacker only if your standing is more than +400. The amount depends on your faction and there faction and where they are (i think) if they get more than -600 they can no longer enter that faction space without being shot.
2) as soon as they hit u they get temp kos (-600 faction) so yes u can shoot back just dont hit the strike force by mistake.
3) the initial attacker only suffers penalities if he kills you, else they only get the temp kos. if they warp out there old standing returns. So if u kill him the attacker wont lose faction, but if u do attack him you will get temp kos also (which i think i kinda unfair since your only doing self defense)
- so really if your in guarded space your best bet is either run or just stall him til the strike force kill them.
2) as soon as they hit u they get temp kos (-600 faction) so yes u can shoot back just dont hit the strike force by mistake.
3) the initial attacker only suffers penalities if he kills you, else they only get the temp kos. if they warp out there old standing returns. So if u kill him the attacker wont lose faction, but if u do attack him you will get temp kos also (which i think i kinda unfair since your only doing self defense)
- so really if your in guarded space your best bet is either run or just stall him til the strike force kill them.
heh i was writing my reply as pirren posted :(
[quote]the initial attacker only suffers penalities if he kills you, else they only get the temp kos. if they warp out there old standing returns. So if u kill him the attacker wont lose faction, but if u do attack him you will get temp kos also (which i think i kinda unfair since your only doing self defense)
- so really if your in guarded space your best bet is either run or just stall him til the strike force kill them.
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This sounds like a major design flaw in the game. I'm kind of surprised it has gone on this long. If someone attacks someone in guarded space, anyone should be able to attack them back without penalty. While under the KOS status, anyone should be able to attack them in guarded space without penalty even if they were not directly involved in the attack that got the attacker the KOS status. They attacker being blown up/shot at should not save them from a faction loss.
Basically once an area marks someone as a threat, it is free reign on killing them. Does the the pay command also mark someone as KOS target as well or does this also need to be fixed. Forcing someone to pay you should be considered the equivlent of blowing up their ship though to work out problems this could cause, there needs to be a command for pirates to demand money from someone, otherwise it is considered a friendly pay.
- so really if your in guarded space your best bet is either run or just stall him til the strike force kill them.
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This sounds like a major design flaw in the game. I'm kind of surprised it has gone on this long. If someone attacks someone in guarded space, anyone should be able to attack them back without penalty. While under the KOS status, anyone should be able to attack them in guarded space without penalty even if they were not directly involved in the attack that got the attacker the KOS status. They attacker being blown up/shot at should not save them from a faction loss.
Basically once an area marks someone as a threat, it is free reign on killing them. Does the the pay command also mark someone as KOS target as well or does this also need to be fixed. Forcing someone to pay you should be considered the equivlent of blowing up their ship though to work out problems this could cause, there needs to be a command for pirates to demand money from someone, otherwise it is considered a friendly pay.
Define "guarded" -- NFZ rules play out differently, especially about #3, than in Guarded or Monitored space rules.
Hint: one of my favorite tricks for hunting noobs at their own capital stations is to fly in front of them while in the NFZ and fire off a dozen "misses" or so. Then I don't dodge when they shoot back, which makes them "Temp KOS" with their own nation.
No penalty kill at the station? Damn right.
If someone attacks someone in guarded space, anyone should be able to attack them back without penalty.
Why? Also, define 'attack' -- there are often good reasons for a player to shoot first.
Forcing someone to pay you should be considered the equivlent of blowing up their ship though to work out problems this could cause, there needs to be a command for pirates to demand money from someone, otherwise it is considered a friendly pay.
Either you're a troll or a moron.
But just in case you're only a moron, let me explain the faction/monitoring system to you.
Unmonitored Space: there are NO penalties for harming or killing anyone here. None. Don't ask for any.
Monitored Space: monitored by a specific faction or nation, but does not have any in-sector defensive turrets or strike forces; strike force will be dispatched to the sector a short time after a Hated or KOS pilot is detected.
Guarded Space: basically just like monitored space, this space is monitored by a specific faction or nation, but also has in-sector defensive turrets and/or strike forces that will instantly engage any Hated or KOS pilot.
No Fire Zone: this is a "bubble" extending 1000m out in all directions from a station; anyone who shoots and hits another pilot while either the shooter or the pilot hit are inside the NFZ will (1) instantly become -1000 KOS with the station's faction, lasting until death or leaving the sector, and thus unable to dock at the station, and (2) have a SF launched against them.
In Monitored and Guarded space, there is a reputational hit for killing either Admired or POS pilots. There is NO reputational hit for killing KOS, Hated, Disliked, Neutral, or Respected pilots in either type of space. There are not penalities for just shooting someone, however. The kill is all that matters.
If you don't drop below -599 in reputation as a result of a kill's reputational consequences, then no SF/turrets will attack you. However, if you were Admired, killed a POS player, and became Disliked . . . then you could be killed without your opponent getting hit with the reputation drop.
In the NFZ, nobody may shoot anyone. Ever. For any reason. Anyone who does so, even if their target just did and is being chased by SF, will instantly become temp KOS and an easy, consequence-free kill themselves.
None of this is that hard.
Hint: one of my favorite tricks for hunting noobs at their own capital stations is to fly in front of them while in the NFZ and fire off a dozen "misses" or so. Then I don't dodge when they shoot back, which makes them "Temp KOS" with their own nation.
No penalty kill at the station? Damn right.
If someone attacks someone in guarded space, anyone should be able to attack them back without penalty.
Why? Also, define 'attack' -- there are often good reasons for a player to shoot first.
Forcing someone to pay you should be considered the equivlent of blowing up their ship though to work out problems this could cause, there needs to be a command for pirates to demand money from someone, otherwise it is considered a friendly pay.
Either you're a troll or a moron.
But just in case you're only a moron, let me explain the faction/monitoring system to you.
Unmonitored Space: there are NO penalties for harming or killing anyone here. None. Don't ask for any.
Monitored Space: monitored by a specific faction or nation, but does not have any in-sector defensive turrets or strike forces; strike force will be dispatched to the sector a short time after a Hated or KOS pilot is detected.
Guarded Space: basically just like monitored space, this space is monitored by a specific faction or nation, but also has in-sector defensive turrets and/or strike forces that will instantly engage any Hated or KOS pilot.
No Fire Zone: this is a "bubble" extending 1000m out in all directions from a station; anyone who shoots and hits another pilot while either the shooter or the pilot hit are inside the NFZ will (1) instantly become -1000 KOS with the station's faction, lasting until death or leaving the sector, and thus unable to dock at the station, and (2) have a SF launched against them.
In Monitored and Guarded space, there is a reputational hit for killing either Admired or POS pilots. There is NO reputational hit for killing KOS, Hated, Disliked, Neutral, or Respected pilots in either type of space. There are not penalities for just shooting someone, however. The kill is all that matters.
If you don't drop below -599 in reputation as a result of a kill's reputational consequences, then no SF/turrets will attack you. However, if you were Admired, killed a POS player, and became Disliked . . . then you could be killed without your opponent getting hit with the reputation drop.
In the NFZ, nobody may shoot anyone. Ever. For any reason. Anyone who does so, even if their target just did and is being chased by SF, will instantly become temp KOS and an easy, consequence-free kill themselves.
None of this is that hard.
Guarded area being any area that is considered somewhat safe because of a faction loss and KOS status an attacker gets from attacking someone. ( I used the term guarded for lack of a better word to use. I'll start calling them somewhat safe I guess.)
Attack being using your weapon on someone. Ships nudging against each other can be seen as an accident.
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Why? Also, define 'attack' -- there are often good reasons for a player to shoot first.
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I assume you mean if a know pirate is heading toward you. I think this would be solved by have people that actively pirate an area to the point where they no longer get the protection somewhat safe areas ( areas it affect your faction to attack someone). They will be set to KOS all the time. Any player may kill them without faction loss or worry about being set to KOS.
Also, I heard some mention of the fact it is rather easy to kill a player in somewhat safe areas and regain your rep. This needs to be looked into.
Attack being using your weapon on someone. Ships nudging against each other can be seen as an accident.
[quote]
Why? Also, define 'attack' -- there are often good reasons for a player to shoot first.
[/quote]
I assume you mean if a know pirate is heading toward you. I think this would be solved by have people that actively pirate an area to the point where they no longer get the protection somewhat safe areas ( areas it affect your faction to attack someone). They will be set to KOS all the time. Any player may kill them without faction loss or worry about being set to KOS.
Also, I heard some mention of the fact it is rather easy to kill a player in somewhat safe areas and regain your rep. This needs to be looked into.
You clearly don't understand the faction system. RTFM and try again.
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You clearly don't understand the faction system. RTFM and try again.
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That is why I'm asking. How exactly does it work. What does RTFM mean?
You clearly don't understand the faction system. RTFM and try again.
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That is why I'm asking. How exactly does it work. What does RTFM mean?
Read The Fucking Manual. Though since that manual is in English, I see why you might be having a hard time. Too bad, so sad.
Look up at my earlier post where I explain the faction system somewhat. Basically, many of us pirates work hard to maintain high faction standing with nations not of our own kind, so that we can safely pirate there. Your request fails to account for the fact that you can repeatedly kill a lot of people, so long as you pay your dues in terms of building/repairing faction standing. It's supposed to be that way: just because it's monitored/guarded doesn't mean you can wallow along in a laden XC and expect to be safe.
Thanks for going back and adding that description. I did look in the manual but didn't see anything on this. My point being was someone that kills someone that is a POS/Admired should take a huge loss. It shouldn't be possible for someone to consistently attack in an area that is monitored(or above) and work off the bad reputation. Choosing to attack ships repeatably in monitored or above space should really mean something. After all it is the equivalent of telling the government in control there #@$#$#@, I'll do what I want.
It is sort of why you see in movies and more people that go against the government of an area docking at lawless stations since their going to be arrested immediately if they show their face else where. Light penalties go against the nature of the game.
It is sort of why you see in movies and more people that go against the government of an area docking at lawless stations since their going to be arrested immediately if they show their face else where. Light penalties go against the nature of the game.
someone that kills someone that is a POS/Admired should take a huge loss.
We do, up to 1000 faction points.
It shouldn't be possible for someone to consistently attack in an area that is monitored(or above) and work off the bad reputation.
First, your wrong; second, why not? Also, what does "consistently" mean? Again, you seem to be confused about what "safe" means. If I catch Ecka, who is POS UIT, in an XC full of Sedina chocolate outside a UIT station and I blow him away, my standing drops to, say, -500, which is Disliked. If Ecka is homed there, he can now freely attack me and not lose faction. If he's not, I'll scoop the cargo, sell it, and then start rebuilding my faction. While I'm doing that, I'm in UIT space with a "Please Kill Me, No Faction Loss" sign on my moth. And while I'm doing that, I have to stop killing Admired/POS traders, or I'll be reduced to -600 or lower, making me KOS. But after I've helped UIT out by bringing them a thousand CUs of plasteel, they'll love me again. This is how it works.
In sum, it's a sufficent penalty as it is. You're as safe as you deserve to be. Stop whining.
We do, up to 1000 faction points.
It shouldn't be possible for someone to consistently attack in an area that is monitored(or above) and work off the bad reputation.
First, your wrong; second, why not? Also, what does "consistently" mean? Again, you seem to be confused about what "safe" means. If I catch Ecka, who is POS UIT, in an XC full of Sedina chocolate outside a UIT station and I blow him away, my standing drops to, say, -500, which is Disliked. If Ecka is homed there, he can now freely attack me and not lose faction. If he's not, I'll scoop the cargo, sell it, and then start rebuilding my faction. While I'm doing that, I'm in UIT space with a "Please Kill Me, No Faction Loss" sign on my moth. And while I'm doing that, I have to stop killing Admired/POS traders, or I'll be reduced to -600 or lower, making me KOS. But after I've helped UIT out by bringing them a thousand CUs of plasteel, they'll love me again. This is how it works.
In sum, it's a sufficent penalty as it is. You're as safe as you deserve to be. Stop whining.
You need to stop confusing whining with constructive criticism. It seems more like bribing the government to bypass the law to be able to do what you described. This sort of makes since with factions like UIT since they're a faction themed around making money but the Serco and Itani would not find this acceptable. It should be harder and harder to regain reputation with Serco/Itani every time you kill a POS/Admired player until an area stops giving you reputation no matter what you do. After a certain period of time ( like a weeks to a month), the reduced/no reputation gain penalty to will be reduced a level.
Well, a system like what you say is actually planned as part of the faction system redux, and when it happens, I wont be bothered at all!
Yeah, I know its game breaking for some, and stuff, but well, I don't care much for trading, and find it hard to resist POS/Admired players in *safe* space, so I ended up with a tottally different game-plan to Lecter. I tend to just accept the fact that stations erverywhere will one day not let me dock (well, everywhere but corvus). ANd when this does happen, I delete myself, and start over. Usually takes a days worth of grinding my ass off to have a *useable* yoda. (useable in my past experience is 2/2/2/2/0, but skill sets vary)
So yeah, bring on the faction redux, I'm ready!
[edit]
Oh yeah, just incase you have not read the back story exDragon, do so, because you seem to think we *play* in space with *stable* governments. We don't. Even in recentish real history, governments at war have used pirates and privateers to further their war efforts, ever heard of a letter of marque?
Yeah, I know its game breaking for some, and stuff, but well, I don't care much for trading, and find it hard to resist POS/Admired players in *safe* space, so I ended up with a tottally different game-plan to Lecter. I tend to just accept the fact that stations erverywhere will one day not let me dock (well, everywhere but corvus). ANd when this does happen, I delete myself, and start over. Usually takes a days worth of grinding my ass off to have a *useable* yoda. (useable in my past experience is 2/2/2/2/0, but skill sets vary)
So yeah, bring on the faction redux, I'm ready!
[edit]
Oh yeah, just incase you have not read the back story exDragon, do so, because you seem to think we *play* in space with *stable* governments. We don't. Even in recentish real history, governments at war have used pirates and privateers to further their war efforts, ever heard of a letter of marque?
the Serco and Itani would not find this acceptable
How the Hell do you know?
How the Hell do you know?
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Well, a system like what you say is actually planned as part of the faction system redux, and when it happens, I wont be bothered at all!
[/quote]
Good to hear that is it the works.
[quote]
Oh yeah, just incase you have not read the back story exDragon, do so, because you seem to think we *play* in space with *stable* governments. We don't. Even in recentish real history, governments at war have used pirates and privateers to further their war efforts, ever heard of a letter of marque?
[/quote]
I know governments are not stable but letting someone that has consistently proved to not be trusted is kind of ridiculous which is why I mentioned a time period before the government takes off the no faction gain penalty if they killed enough ships to deserve that.
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the Serco and Itani would not find this acceptable
How the Hell do you know?
[/quote]
The Itani back story gives the impression of wanting to promote peace throughout the universe so they wouldn't find it acceptable.
The Serco back story gives the impression they don't like people that promote peace or get in there way. Attacking someone they consider POS/Admired would go under getting in their way.
The UIT back story gives the impression they just care about money. As long as you pay them to make up for what you did, sure you can dock hear again.
Well, a system like what you say is actually planned as part of the faction system redux, and when it happens, I wont be bothered at all!
[/quote]
Good to hear that is it the works.
[quote]
Oh yeah, just incase you have not read the back story exDragon, do so, because you seem to think we *play* in space with *stable* governments. We don't. Even in recentish real history, governments at war have used pirates and privateers to further their war efforts, ever heard of a letter of marque?
[/quote]
I know governments are not stable but letting someone that has consistently proved to not be trusted is kind of ridiculous which is why I mentioned a time period before the government takes off the no faction gain penalty if they killed enough ships to deserve that.
[quote]
the Serco and Itani would not find this acceptable
How the Hell do you know?
[/quote]
The Itani back story gives the impression of wanting to promote peace throughout the universe so they wouldn't find it acceptable.
The Serco back story gives the impression they don't like people that promote peace or get in there way. Attacking someone they consider POS/Admired would go under getting in their way.
The UIT back story gives the impression they just care about money. As long as you pay them to make up for what you did, sure you can dock hear again.
Dr. Lecter described the faction system exactly as I understand it.
"There is NO reputational hit for killing KOS, Hated, Disliked, Neutral, or Respected pilots in either type of space."
This rule does not make an exception to my understanding BUT ... I killed a Respected Itani pilot in the Itani space once. I was UIT aligned with > 600 (Admired) Itani standing. He was Itani aligned with < 600 (Respected) Itani standing. I thought it is OK because he was below Admired standing but I got penalized.
Someone told me that pilots in their own nation space are not treated the same way. I have not tested it again yet. There are not that many players with their nation standing dropped to Respected.
So, is Respected enough for your nation to care about you dying?
"There is NO reputational hit for killing KOS, Hated, Disliked, Neutral, or Respected pilots in either type of space."
This rule does not make an exception to my understanding BUT ... I killed a Respected Itani pilot in the Itani space once. I was UIT aligned with > 600 (Admired) Itani standing. He was Itani aligned with < 600 (Respected) Itani standing. I thought it is OK because he was below Admired standing but I got penalized.
Someone told me that pilots in their own nation space are not treated the same way. I have not tested it again yet. There are not that many players with their nation standing dropped to Respected.
So, is Respected enough for your nation to care about you dying?
exDragon: you can use [ i] ... [ /i] (without the space, of course) to italicize.
Inco: I used to think that Respected produced some minimal standing loss, but now it seems not to. In any event, unless you're -598, it probably doesn't matter.
Inco, Lecter: It depends on the faction. Each faction has a different minimum level of faction a pilot must have before killing him in their space results in a faction loss. For a lot of factions, this minimum level is around 600 (Admired) but it isn't necessarily that for all of them. I have definitely lost some faction with UIT and TPG for killing respected pilots in their space, for example.