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No matter how hard I try, I just cannot get less than 1:05.216 in the first race track. Heres a vid I made of me trying to (sorry for the sucky music, but damn, I hate racing tube fever! Think of all the traders that are getting away! Damn you Mick!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWghv4aKXw4
What the hell am I doing wrong? I've tried using flight assist, it does not seem to make much difference on my time, except that if I hit a wall with FA on, I really lose control, so how the hell can I improve this time?
[edit]
In the past I've gotten quicker times, I really don't get it.
[edit 2]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sKZDGbI6K8
3rd person race goodness!
[edit 3]
Ah damn, forgot to change the quantise matrix when encoding that, oh well, blocky goodness!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWghv4aKXw4
What the hell am I doing wrong? I've tried using flight assist, it does not seem to make much difference on my time, except that if I hit a wall with FA on, I really lose control, so how the hell can I improve this time?
[edit]
In the past I've gotten quicker times, I really don't get it.
[edit 2]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sKZDGbI6K8
3rd person race goodness!
[edit 3]
Ah damn, forgot to change the quantise matrix when encoding that, oh well, blocky goodness!
Try it with a Cent, might just be that that's what you're better with tubing. With a cent, you don't really have to focus on your width, just imagine you're diving in headfirst o.0
Try to turn very accurately. It helps just to focus on that for a while. And I use FA, I just pilot better that way (although you're right, if you hit a wall hard with a vult wing, you really lose control, I've even gone right through that way).
To be honest though, I usually get times of about .57 or so, so I'm not really the one to ask.
EDIT: ya, and use first person view.
Try to turn very accurately. It helps just to focus on that for a while. And I use FA, I just pilot better that way (although you're right, if you hit a wall hard with a vult wing, you really lose control, I've even gone right through that way).
To be honest though, I usually get times of about .57 or so, so I'm not really the one to ask.
EDIT: ya, and use first person view.
Something with weight also helps, for me at least. Usually got times about 8 seconds slower than top with a Hog or a weight Cent. It just helps when one overcompensates.
Hmm, yah, cent it is I guess, managed to get down to 1:03ish, which is still too slow :/ Maybe I just suck at racing! Oh well, maybe by the next tube race i'll have it under a minute >.>
I have no clear cut tips. There's this deeply rooted movement in VO community that the flight style is something extremely personal, so the most I can give you is my personal preference.
o) I prefer a Centurion class ship: very good angular momentum (handling) and the narrow cross section makes it easier to keep it centered in the tube section. Its acceleration is a bit lower than Vultures, but the tradeoff is ok for me. Battery drain is never an issue in a tube. You simply WON'T hold down the turbo as much as worrying about power cell charge: an heavy power cell will save you 10kg, as a bonus! :)
o) I prefer FA on and Mouselook on. I find it's the most "direct" flight combination: there's the shortest "round trip" time from visual feedback, to your flight correction, to ship steering compared to all other FA/ML combinations.
o) Probably I would change my mind if I had a joystick; there are two totally different ways to configure a joystick: roll on L/R + pitch on U/D (like Elite or Frontier, or most 20th/21st century aircrafts), or yaw on L/R + pitch on U/D (like Wing Commander or default Vega Strike). In an heavily 3D track like our tubes, probably the first one will have an edge.
o) How to negotiate curves and bends is probably the most important part. I found this "trick" to be useful: I try to understand which axis is my preferred one, horizontal or vertical, where my control setup (mouse + keyboard) is most responsive, and my ship delivers best angular momentum. For my flight style in a Cent III, that'd be the vertical one: I align all my curves with roll keys (the only ones having an effect while turboing) so that my next bend will be a upward going one. I do this also because I use a 5:4 ratio (1280x1024) screen resolution, and have lots of vertical space to get my visual feedback. In a standard 4:3 ratio (1600x1200, 1024x768, 800x600) or even more on a 16:9/16:10 ratio (1280x720, 1280x800), you have more horizontal display room, than vertical one, so you might prefer to align all your bends to be rudder bends.
o) Engage turbo as much as you can, but only once you set your course in a relatively safe path. Course adjustments should be made at START of long stretches, and not during them. During straight sections, you're supposed to be at the geometrical center of the tube, dashing toward the next apex point. Remember that you oughta approach the curve on the outer side, then close in on the apex, then turbo away again on the outer side. However, since walls damage you, it's better to always keep yourself focused into holding the exact center of the tube at first. Drifting will come natural once you learn to keep your distance from walls.
o) Still, in slow, wavy sections ("chicanes", if you prefer), use strafe keys to keep your nose toward the next hard curve, while waving (up/down or left/right) in the S segments. You lose the turbo speed, but arrive at the curve in easily controllable position and direction, while still having the top cruise speed, which is nothing to sneeze at. In the video you posted, I see you negotiate the middle section chicane with yawing, pitching and turboing, while you could have passed it with some vertical strafing more easily.
o) Also, use damage control wisely. It's pointless to boom before the finish ring, but it's also pointless to arrive in a mint ship, with an abysmal time. Learn the tracks and where you will crash no matter what. Try to minimize your damage, but accept as a fact of life that top times NEED some amount of wall scraping. I don't suggest you to learn what bends you can bump off at full speed, because ricocheting on the walls is always unpredictable, and doesn't guarantee 1) that you don't pop out of the track, 2) that you don't stop dead in your tracks by losing all your momentum. Still, you can nudge some walls and taking advantage of their solidity in helping you stay on track without losing your speed.
o) The last observation I want to share with you is that the flight model of our universe is heavily influenced by inertia, and our ships are all "rear wheel drive" vehicles. Remember you can't steer while turboing: at best you can quickly tap the turbo while doing minor adjustments to your course. Said that, you can imagine that the fastest way to negotiate a bend is by applying a modified version of "opposite lock" (a.k.a. oversteer countersteering) driving technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposite_lock
Look at the picture in the linked article: you'd ideally want to point your ship at the internal wall of the bend IN ADVANCE of the bend (more or less where the car with blue tires is depicted in the image), then step on the turbo, and negotiate the curve sideways. The ship lateral inertia, coupled with the boost acceleration, will make you zip thru the curve while traveling PARALLEL to the curve exit direction, with the added bonus of a huge speed out of the bend. The only drawback is that you have to know exactly when to stop turboing before the curve (braking is out of question!), when to steer and point to the inner wall, and when apply turbo while pointing the wall. It comes down to practice and experience, really. But it works wonders for flat, 2D bends. For more complex, 3D spiral bends, you'll find yourself correcting course more often, by quickly tapping the turbo and rolling/pitching a bit more than with a flat curve.
Besides these observations, I can't stress enough the importance of knowing the tracks, anticipating the curves, and never, ever "reacting" to them. Every tube has some part that can be cleverly cut, some bend that you can pass easily once you know how to apex it, some straight segment you can blast thru if you align quickly.
And stress how racing is totally different from any other VO activity. You may be the best pvper, the greatest dodger, the perfect hitter, but the skillset needed to put your ship thru a spatially-limited track is completely different from the one needed to fight in a limitless 3D space. I commend your effort for wanting to improve on the latest aspect, while being a master of the former ones.
o) I prefer a Centurion class ship: very good angular momentum (handling) and the narrow cross section makes it easier to keep it centered in the tube section. Its acceleration is a bit lower than Vultures, but the tradeoff is ok for me. Battery drain is never an issue in a tube. You simply WON'T hold down the turbo as much as worrying about power cell charge: an heavy power cell will save you 10kg, as a bonus! :)
o) I prefer FA on and Mouselook on. I find it's the most "direct" flight combination: there's the shortest "round trip" time from visual feedback, to your flight correction, to ship steering compared to all other FA/ML combinations.
o) Probably I would change my mind if I had a joystick; there are two totally different ways to configure a joystick: roll on L/R + pitch on U/D (like Elite or Frontier, or most 20th/21st century aircrafts), or yaw on L/R + pitch on U/D (like Wing Commander or default Vega Strike). In an heavily 3D track like our tubes, probably the first one will have an edge.
o) How to negotiate curves and bends is probably the most important part. I found this "trick" to be useful: I try to understand which axis is my preferred one, horizontal or vertical, where my control setup (mouse + keyboard) is most responsive, and my ship delivers best angular momentum. For my flight style in a Cent III, that'd be the vertical one: I align all my curves with roll keys (the only ones having an effect while turboing) so that my next bend will be a upward going one. I do this also because I use a 5:4 ratio (1280x1024) screen resolution, and have lots of vertical space to get my visual feedback. In a standard 4:3 ratio (1600x1200, 1024x768, 800x600) or even more on a 16:9/16:10 ratio (1280x720, 1280x800), you have more horizontal display room, than vertical one, so you might prefer to align all your bends to be rudder bends.
o) Engage turbo as much as you can, but only once you set your course in a relatively safe path. Course adjustments should be made at START of long stretches, and not during them. During straight sections, you're supposed to be at the geometrical center of the tube, dashing toward the next apex point. Remember that you oughta approach the curve on the outer side, then close in on the apex, then turbo away again on the outer side. However, since walls damage you, it's better to always keep yourself focused into holding the exact center of the tube at first. Drifting will come natural once you learn to keep your distance from walls.
o) Still, in slow, wavy sections ("chicanes", if you prefer), use strafe keys to keep your nose toward the next hard curve, while waving (up/down or left/right) in the S segments. You lose the turbo speed, but arrive at the curve in easily controllable position and direction, while still having the top cruise speed, which is nothing to sneeze at. In the video you posted, I see you negotiate the middle section chicane with yawing, pitching and turboing, while you could have passed it with some vertical strafing more easily.
o) Also, use damage control wisely. It's pointless to boom before the finish ring, but it's also pointless to arrive in a mint ship, with an abysmal time. Learn the tracks and where you will crash no matter what. Try to minimize your damage, but accept as a fact of life that top times NEED some amount of wall scraping. I don't suggest you to learn what bends you can bump off at full speed, because ricocheting on the walls is always unpredictable, and doesn't guarantee 1) that you don't pop out of the track, 2) that you don't stop dead in your tracks by losing all your momentum. Still, you can nudge some walls and taking advantage of their solidity in helping you stay on track without losing your speed.
o) The last observation I want to share with you is that the flight model of our universe is heavily influenced by inertia, and our ships are all "rear wheel drive" vehicles. Remember you can't steer while turboing: at best you can quickly tap the turbo while doing minor adjustments to your course. Said that, you can imagine that the fastest way to negotiate a bend is by applying a modified version of "opposite lock" (a.k.a. oversteer countersteering) driving technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposite_lock
Look at the picture in the linked article: you'd ideally want to point your ship at the internal wall of the bend IN ADVANCE of the bend (more or less where the car with blue tires is depicted in the image), then step on the turbo, and negotiate the curve sideways. The ship lateral inertia, coupled with the boost acceleration, will make you zip thru the curve while traveling PARALLEL to the curve exit direction, with the added bonus of a huge speed out of the bend. The only drawback is that you have to know exactly when to stop turboing before the curve (braking is out of question!), when to steer and point to the inner wall, and when apply turbo while pointing the wall. It comes down to practice and experience, really. But it works wonders for flat, 2D bends. For more complex, 3D spiral bends, you'll find yourself correcting course more often, by quickly tapping the turbo and rolling/pitching a bit more than with a flat curve.
Besides these observations, I can't stress enough the importance of knowing the tracks, anticipating the curves, and never, ever "reacting" to them. Every tube has some part that can be cleverly cut, some bend that you can pass easily once you know how to apex it, some straight segment you can blast thru if you align quickly.
And stress how racing is totally different from any other VO activity. You may be the best pvper, the greatest dodger, the perfect hitter, but the skillset needed to put your ship thru a spatially-limited track is completely different from the one needed to fight in a limitless 3D space. I commend your effort for wanting to improve on the latest aspect, while being a master of the former ones.
Hmm, thanks for the reply Syylk, the Elite style joystick control is something that I honestly never considered. I do use a controller, so this is maybe something that I will have to try. I'm already very much trying to *learn* each track, hence me concentrating on getting my time down in Sedina B-5.
Lots of stuff to consider there, thank you.
Lots of stuff to consider there, thank you.
Theres also something else you can do...
Kill the other racers. Gets me to third place most of the times, but its more entertaining.
Kill the other racers. Gets me to third place most of the times, but its more entertaining.
Have to be able to catch them first ;)
The "kill other racers" part is a totally different kind of story. Not less interesting than the pure piloting skillset, and we can delve into a detailed discussion about that too. But I guess Yoda wanted some more generic flight-in-a-tube hints.
BTW, Mick is always willing to engage into track race training. Ping him when he's online. I'm online less often (basically only for DRs, as I try to improve my six second places in six races score), so he's the master to learn from.
BTW, Mick is always willing to engage into track race training. Ping him when he's online. I'm online less often (basically only for DRs, as I try to improve my six second places in six races score), so he's the master to learn from.
The kill other racers is how I started out in tube racing (again) :) I find I can get a few kills, but that don't get me any points. This is prolly the first multi player activity I've taken part in in VO for like ever where I feel killing stuff is not the way to win. Maybe when I can win I will look into shooting stuff down, but right now, I suck at tube racing.
Another tip on cornering; if you aim slightly ahead of the curve and hit turbo before your nose catches up, you will kind of drift around it. Sometimes you can line it up so that you go around a curve then down a straightaway without ever letting go of turbo.
This just goes to show that you can actually change directions while turboing, but I think you have to be in mouselook mode for this to work.
This just goes to show that you can actually change directions while turboing, but I think you have to be in mouselook mode for this to work.
Not quite phaser, while what you saying does work and is very useful, you don't need to be in mouselook mode nor does it mean you change direction.
It's because of your sideways motion, anyhow Syylk already explained that in last point.
In response to other of Syylk's points:
1. I'm not sure what you mean about better handling of the centurion but i don't think that's the case, it is smaller of course making it easier to fly.
2. FA i always have on, it's useful in cancelling any unwanted movement (usually other then forward) and making sure you'll turbo where you want. Of course i also strafe but that's different story.
3. About joystick setup, i don't believe any is better then the other, i personally use the second one you described. Best would most likely be the one you are most accustomed to.
4. While i also find it more comfortable to turn vertical i don't think it has anything much to do with resolution.
5,6 Agreed about doing adjustments at the beginning of a straight section, it's also important to do it fast as well as accurate.
It's not always best to stay in the centre of the tube tho.
Making course corrections, especially on straight sections is more precise with strafes (pressing strafe and releasing turbo for very short time). I also tend to strafe a lot on wavy sections.
7. I generally avoid hitting the walls as damage taken can be unpredictable (esp. in a vult) but not at all costs.
And i think you have described 'drifting' quite accurately :)
btw i'm not sure you know there's a list of personal records for all ships?
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/racestats_raw
It's because of your sideways motion, anyhow Syylk already explained that in last point.
In response to other of Syylk's points:
1. I'm not sure what you mean about better handling of the centurion but i don't think that's the case, it is smaller of course making it easier to fly.
2. FA i always have on, it's useful in cancelling any unwanted movement (usually other then forward) and making sure you'll turbo where you want. Of course i also strafe but that's different story.
3. About joystick setup, i don't believe any is better then the other, i personally use the second one you described. Best would most likely be the one you are most accustomed to.
4. While i also find it more comfortable to turn vertical i don't think it has anything much to do with resolution.
5,6 Agreed about doing adjustments at the beginning of a straight section, it's also important to do it fast as well as accurate.
It's not always best to stay in the centre of the tube tho.
Making course corrections, especially on straight sections is more precise with strafes (pressing strafe and releasing turbo for very short time). I also tend to strafe a lot on wavy sections.
7. I generally avoid hitting the walls as damage taken can be unpredictable (esp. in a vult) but not at all costs.
And i think you have described 'drifting' quite accurately :)
btw i'm not sure you know there's a list of personal records for all ships?
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/racestats_raw
whoa! I totally forgot about that list!
Killing the other racers works... just gotta be picky about which ones get the axe.
its pretty easy, just target the ones that are more likey to end up in third place and up. Sneak up behind them before the start, not directly behind them or else they might feel suspect you. Then when it starts, start shooting at them when the entrance of the tube is nearby. Dont use up all you energy in the initial dash though. Also, try to damage them as much as possible, chances are they will kill themselves ramming a wall.
If you are the one being targeted, becareful not to have anyone directly behind you. Also, try not to be in the middle of the pack, more ppl will target you that way.
One more thing, if you are about to get killed by someone behind you, dont panic, try to slow down a lot so that he passes you and then you can be the one shooting him. If you do this, usually he will be confused for a sec and maybe even ram the wall. Ive done this several times and it usually ended up in me killing the guy.
If you are the one being targeted, becareful not to have anyone directly behind you. Also, try not to be in the middle of the pack, more ppl will target you that way.
One more thing, if you are about to get killed by someone behind you, dont panic, try to slow down a lot so that he passes you and then you can be the one shooting him. If you do this, usually he will be confused for a sec and maybe even ram the wall. Ive done this several times and it usually ended up in me killing the guy.
Whoa neat. :)
Yay, cheers spuck, now I can see how badly I suck :P
that was the idea! :P
To reply to Mick:
1) C3 handles worse than V3. I just said it's very good, not better. :) The more compact cross section is what compensates for the worse handling and acceleration.
4) Where I prefer to yaw/pitch is dependent on resolution because on the Y axis I have enough screen to see what's ahead. With an horizontally biased display, I'd have less vertical visual clues, and more horizontal ones. It's a matter of how much data my eyes can process in advance of the next turn.
About firing on other racers: if both you and your target have weaponry onboard, we can start talking about that. But if your "prey" is a smart one, he/she won't slow down his/her own ship by adding weight. Between boosting and draining the battery to fire, you can hope to land at most 3-4 hits on a weaponless ship that's zipping ahead of you with much more acceleration than your weapon-laden fighter.
1) C3 handles worse than V3. I just said it's very good, not better. :) The more compact cross section is what compensates for the worse handling and acceleration.
4) Where I prefer to yaw/pitch is dependent on resolution because on the Y axis I have enough screen to see what's ahead. With an horizontally biased display, I'd have less vertical visual clues, and more horizontal ones. It's a matter of how much data my eyes can process in advance of the next turn.
About firing on other racers: if both you and your target have weaponry onboard, we can start talking about that. But if your "prey" is a smart one, he/she won't slow down his/her own ship by adding weight. Between boosting and draining the battery to fire, you can hope to land at most 3-4 hits on a weaponless ship that's zipping ahead of you with much more acceleration than your weapon-laden fighter.