Hey guys, we used to have NPC pirates (Corvus, unaligned, or other) hustling the Wormholes in Grey Space.

The NPC pirates were removed with the recent version upgrade.

Grey space needs NPC pirates. Without pirates, Grey space is really just lite-grey space: empty.

(I know there are plenty of Player character pirates, but depending on the time of day, there can be one or none; Then n00bs can do plenty of big missions in "Grey", either convoy escort or bulk procurement, with impunity)
(Seems the only real difference of "lite-grey space" with nation space, is faction loss: nation-space is monitored).

I guess the Devs know this already, and I guess they're working on better NPCs in Kourier already; but just to remind: Grey space needs NPC pirates.

But if they are back B-8 will die again D:

Ya since they got rid of the npc-rats there has been a lot of fun going on in b8, instead of just being inconvenienced by npc-rats.

Mugen

NPC rats were the best good idea to ever go bad... if that makes sense. In theory it was cool, but once we had them it was just annoying. They need to be smarter and come in smaller numbers before they're put back in.

They can come back. We can always fight in Latos h2. I agree there should be smaller numbers though. I've seen 30 or more in sector at time. even 15 is way to many though.

yes I agree with Ghost. ALso they need to be smaller in the sense that they should not just sit at the wh. And they should not spawn back instantly like bots in a botting sector, thats silly.

Jess, they can not come back as they are right now, I think.
Wolfpacks of, say, 2 would be fine, but any number exceeding 4 would be nothing more than a nuisance, especially since

a) they have unlimited funding and

b) they have unfair advantages (mental dodging) , making it necessary to use a lot of time per kill.

Also, I think it is silly to say that we can always relocate to Latos H-2. Rather than relocating player activity hubs, make them pop up all over grey space, in small numbers. It's really not very realistic to face a Nation War-sized group (or exceeding that) of unbots when there are perhaps 2-3 players around.

I'd agree with Toshiro. I thought that was what momerath is aiming for when the code is redone ?

bulk trading mission for the corvus would become way too hard...

Hi
Good points, and I agree with a lot of it.
We can still play in B8 though :-)

How about this idea: in Sedina B8 (and Latos O12),:
- there are NO unaligned unrats
- there are just Corvus aligned unrats
* they don't attack if you're Corvus admired or on a Corvus mission
- there are more than 4, but less than 8 (sorry 2-4 is lame)
- they don't just respawn instantly

In this way, we (and more experienced Grey space players) can still congregate in Sedina B8 (or other spots like Latos H2), without undue unrat hassle (Corvus aligned) and still able to clear the area if necessary.

Glunn: dude [bulk] trade procurement missions in Grey space *should* be hard, not so easy as newbies in Revenants with 1/1/1/1/- license can do them without breaking a sweat.

Eddy, I still see a problem with your suggestion. Also, I'd like to note that I think this thread belongs in suggestions.

The unbots should either all be corvus aligned, or there should be an actual main faction called 'Renegades' or 'Pirates'... you get my point.

A person who has good standing with that faction should not be able to gain standing with the other major factions, since they are, after all, a common enemy. This should be possible with a mutually-exclusive faction system, which I think the developers are currently working on.

Also, I'd like to asky why and how limiting them to groups of 2-4 is lame? Have you actually fought groups of 4 and more?

I agree that trips through grey space should not be easy, but they should not be frustrating. Because fighting unbots IS frustrating. I've fought unbots for as long as they existed, whenever I logged on and had nothing better to do. I've tried to keep single WH sectors clean, sometimes in collaboration with other players. While this is fun (for a while) and teaches one a lot about how to dodge the 'new' AI, and how to kill them quickly, it is not exactly something I call challenging, or interesting. Especially since there is little to no reward for doing so.

With the current number of active players, I think 2-4 unbots per grey space wh sector are perfectly fine. However, they should not just camp the wormhole but patrol the system, perhaps the entire grey space area. Most, if not all of this has been suggested already, but I am not sure who was first.

You could also make them to NOT attack human pirates :p

they need to be aligned such that they do not attack players with hated or lower standing of their own nation and admired or higher Corvus standing.

They also need to be smarter, and come in smaller groups. 2-4 is fine.

They need to learn to differentiate traders from combatants, and attack the former accordingly.

They need to NOT spam /msg at people, especially after they're dead or when they're not in sector. One ultimatum is fine.



So yea, Grey space does NOT need NPC pirates until all of these things are fixed, thank you.

Hey Cunjo
I guess yeah I agree there are improvements to be made to NPC pirates - and it's good that the Devs are working on that.
But I guess you agree (or at least you appear to agree in your above post) that Grey Space _does_ need NPC pirates.
Smarter NPC pirates, but NPC pirates nonetheless.
Neat idea the AI being able to distinguish between traders and fighers :-)
I wait in anticipation for the improved NPC pirates to be rolled out as soon(tm) as possible.

How about this idea: in Sedina B8 (and Latos O12),:
- there are NO unaligned unrats
- there are just Corvus aligned unrats
* they don't attack if you're Corvus admired or on a Corvus mission
- there are more than 4, but less than 8 (sorry 2-4 is lame)
- they don't just respawn instantly

sounds perfect to me

ok my suggestion.

Numbers: player online/2 = amount of npc pierats.
Location: according to the map in my mind there are 3 sectors with corvus stations... xang xi likes them...

if i would be a corvus pirate then i would see it as my personal intrest to keep greyspace grey space like patrolling alot.

sitting at wormwholes is just lame for npc's. they even should spwan like 4 to 6 rat ships attacking the borderstations like 3 to 4 times a day if you are lucky you have about 20 minutes before their arrival to get a "defend the border" mission...
the station will launch just two extra guards so it's like evened and just the players decide about win or loose...

Loose = this station gets plundered and it's demand for goods drop.

the other regular pirats sure hold a wh untill another part of their group reaches the next wh then they rejoin there and again a few move on to the next. groups of 3 are hard for a beginner if the npc's are smart. but like pc pierats i suggest the npc's also should have a setup like 2 fighters and one ship to claim the cargo.

sure also bigger groups of them but this should be kinda rare... most of the time you meet just 3 or 4 of them the first wh and the other part of a group at the next untill they decide to regroup and move on...

why is there just one pirat faction anyway?

know what, my toon is admired at corvus already so you bring them back i gonna start a new toon just to experience how it is to get attacked and chased of course pirats never stop chasing you untill either you reach a non-pirate-station or home territory...

you managed to get an escort or delivery mission to a corvus station then this ist the ticket to get in and hopefully also pick up a mission to do, if you just would not look so honest and thrustworthy your chances would be even better that there is something for you to do...

but still if you are admired that does not mean the pirates would ignore that you actually carry a really nice cargo around... YARRR. being admired only means when entering corvus stationspace the pirats send you a hail like "ok m8 but next time you won't be that lucky."
and there need to be names for pirates you recognize and also special ship, cargo runner, configs you recognize...

like pirate XY always has this fucking modded fast vult in his group that can run long, really long, while firing the railgun on fleeing traders...

and the other guy pirate z uses concussion mines all the time...

btw. to get rid of them just jettison you cargo and turbo and pray, cuz like real pirats after they have something to trade for amusement they will be busy with celebrating that victory for a while (another group actually gets hungry the same time to keep the player/2=pirats ratio)

I don't miss them one bit.

NPC pirates interfiere with player pirates.

Even with the NPC pirates gone there are more pirates than traders in grey.

Pirate attacks should not be a certinty, they should be unexpected. We have enough pirates.

csgno1:
- In my opinion there are too many player pirates. A VO community can be parasited by 10% of players being pirates, but when 50% are pirates, it kinda takes the p*ss. Especially when half of them are newbies.
- Still in my opinion there is a need for NPC pirates.

The two are not inconsistent. With the latter, we cut down on the need for the former, and also on the number of newbies who just joined [insert pirate guild here] begging going "please don't shoot!" when you happen across them on a trade mission in a Centaur or Moth in Grey Space.
Maybe I'm conservative. I like it the way it was until the NPC pirates disappeared.

Anyway what I do is I have a mental list of people I consider real pirates and treat with respect. Then there are the n00bs, and I just ignore them or make fun of them, or occassionaly PK them.

Shaded:
Personally I reckon 0.5 * num_players would not be nearly enough NPC pierats; but that's my opinion. Your idea is good, and if implemented the devs can always rebalance the multiplier. Start with 0.5 and go from there. I agree having like 30 pierats camping a WH doesn't make sense. (Not that that stopped me from making a home in Corvus Space. I'm not a pirate BTW).

-- Foo Fighter

Most self-anointed PC 'p.i.r.a.t.e.s.' are really just 'People In Reticent Attitudes Towards Economical Self-preservation'. In other words, they are too lazy to trade, mine, or scavenge, so they do what they (think they) do best and pvp for their daily chit.

However, they make trading fun and worth doing, I used to oftentimes call out my trade routes to them in order to have some fun, or even get a pk.

So saying that there are too many PC pirates around is probably not the right idea, especially when you think that there should be lots and lots of NPC pirates.
PC pirates add to the immersion, since they do not blindly attack you, but have different ways of going about their business, which makes it quite interesting to deal with them.

NPC pirates only have standard modes of operation, and with increasing numbers, only the annoyance and sometimes frustration increases, not the number of different actions.

About homing in Corvus space: I have been homed in Corvus space since I had enough standing to dock with them (i.e. immediately), and I stayed partially because of the unbots. It's not that they present a difficulty, as said ebfore, they present a nuisance.

If the NPC pirates are to increase in intelligence, then I would think the UIT (or one of the corps) would make border stations in Latos and Edras WH sectors. Heck, maybe these stations are the ones that can come under attack. As far as commodity prices dropping? I think they would rise, but the ability to buy (weapons, ships, maybe some special commodity that only comes if it has been alive and well for a while that sells nicely elsewhere... like Famous Dead Pirate Paraphernalia) is the kicker. And then, say, if the station is to fall completely, then the pirates start attacking Orion/TPG interests in Latos, and then missions to retake the border station comes up. UIT BP ftw! Similar case in Edras.

I like the idea of bringing the unrats back, but the changes offered here (numbers, alignment, NPC/Player pirate interaction, etc.) are what are needed.

And as far as player pirates go, yes, there are a few good pirates. I enjoy fighting/chatting with them. Sure, there are the newbies, but they're easily taken care of, and as a trader, it's nice to bloody a pirate's nose, even if they aren't the best. Maybe then they'll realize what a mistake they're making... :D