No really.. I dunno why some people cry about pirates. I never pirate people, I'm a trader... and when I enter a sector or exit a station an hear a gauss ball fly by me, kick in the turbo, feel the adrenaline flowing through my veins.

Most of the time I make it alive... and what a feeling it is when the pirate is closing in and you manage to warp ... and he chases you through another sector but you still make it... he's just 400 meters behind you .... it's one of the best things in this game!!!

I would personnally remove mouselook, physics mode and reduce strafe to a speed of 10... but pirate chases like that... wow without it space trading would be so boring I would play frozen bubbles instead!

portchop: I agree, Pirates are cool.

But I don't understand why you want the physics mode gone - IHMO it's the only way to play this game, because it's realistic.

Sure, it takes some time getting used to it, but why should one cripple the game just because some people don't want to play realistically?

Regards,
Mark (Commander Jameson)

I like physics mode, but I hate pirates.

They killed me too much when I just started. Imagine yourselve doing a traderun for a measly 2k with a ship you just bought to get a nice profit. and then repeatedly getting killed by some darn @@@@@@ pirate. Just because they want to be a hotshot. I will tell you 1 thing, some of those pirates have paid a very very high price for attacking me.

/me still remembers a couple of traderuns with leathal (hehe). He has never been swearing that much. No, that is not possible, you kiling me "Renegade ++RIP++ blew up leathal". And then me responding, just leave me alone, or I have to blow you up again "Renegade ++RIP++ blew up leathal". That was the finest day from my little spacecariere.

Besides, I have found out a nice way to stop it, pirating newbies = 3x retal. So if I see you pirating a newbie, then prepare to be killed or at least try to defend yourselve 3 times for 1 attack :D.

So for the people who didn't figure this one out, I don't find pirates cool, I find them rather egocentric people who try to prove themselve to be the ultimate of the ultimates :D by killing some newbies.

Oh yeah, the physics part:

physics : cool for fighting and all
arcade: very easy for traderoutes and manouvering into docks and all :D

So you will see me switching between these 2 modes a lot :D

cheers

Renegade, I have to agree with you. and the 3:1 thing is what finally caused DS4 to cave. I'd see a guy picking on a bus or atlas, I'd surprise him and kill him, only to have him come after ME with a couple of innocent and/or ignorant golds or reds.

If they knew he was a pirate, they might not have helped him. But they were told "hey DS4 is being an @$$ and attacked me for no reason and cost me a ship blah blah blah."

I've had 7 filled with golds before after ME just because I killed a guy looking for an easy profit. If team 0 were present, they'd either be kicked out of a nation for pirating, or would never be in a nation in the first place, in that case I wouldn't have to worry about the vigilante get-DS4 committee.

This is a *game*! it's called "vendetta" you make personal choices as to how you play it. griefers suck and pirates get on my nerves, but it's the pilots choice as to how they play. Pirating is an acceptable form of play, if we start building rules and clamping styles this will just be a ctf game; And that will ruin it.

Some of the more moralistic players (Despite this post i am one of these) will try and coax team members out of pirating and noob killing, but they are a factor of this game which can (as portchop stated), make for some fun times.

If you get taken out, buy a new ship. If you feel you are personally being chased, change your nick/char. Deal with it!

SirCamps: I'll go further. I use to get grief from vets other vets about not defending my newbies, but when I do go and put a smack on some lame griefer that gets a sense of power from blowing up a bus 10-20 times in a row 9 times in 10 I get three or four vets rushing to defend the griefer EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW WHAT PROVOKED MY ATTACK. So this whole discussion is simply a smoke screen. There is no such thing as a widespread code that most players follow for the simple reason that no such intangible thing will exist without in game support. Kinda like the blue government, this whole concept of 'newbie killing' is something that is completely made up. The basic cultural universe of Vendetta is warfare and player killing and anyone that tells you otherwise is pulling the wool over your eyes.

I'll go so far to say that it isn't the pirating that drives people away, its the feeling that the community gives n00bs that they are ENTITLED not to be attacked. The whole concept that they as n00bs aren't so supposed to be attacked is more destructive than the actual attacking itself because it gives the feeling to n00bs that somehow thier 'rights' are being violated when a member of another team comes over and attacks them. This leads to the n00b experiencing more frustration than they would otherwise have from what is basically at its heart getting fragged in what is still basically a death match game.

Anyone that claims that the Vendetta test at present is an RPG is just full of it. Show me one NPC that you can talk to (other than bounty bot, who isn't part of the game anyway). Show me one player who stays in character. Heck, show me a character. Is Sharper a character at present? Give me a break. The closest we have to a character is Verd, and that's only because Verd isn't female, because other than the gender bender Verd is basically OOC all the time. Show me the mission structure and the skill points to earn and the other things that make a CRPG a RPG.

n00bs, I hate to say this but basically you are the person primarily responcible for defending yourself AND YOU ALWAYS WILL BE.

Icarus.

you wanted us to show you a character.. there you have it

Icarus? Seriously? Icarus isn't a character. Icarus is a player that takes alot of pride in his skills.

Where was Icarus born?
What is his family like?
What is Icarus's favorite drink?
Quote one of Icarsus's IC comments.
What does Icarus look like? Short? Tall? Bald? Long Haired? Blue-eyed?
Is Icarus religious?
What motivates Icarus?
What is Icarus's political affiliation?
What is Icarus's career?
If Icarus is a 'pirate' why doesn't he focus on cargo carrying vessels to attack?
If Icarus is a soldier, why doesn't he have a 'rank'?

You might as well claim that Lemming is an IC lemming and Wombat is an IC Wombat.

portchop, physics mode is really the best way to fly, especially against another player, it may take some getting used too, but after you get the hang of it like us vets, you can take down most people. And if you ask me lowering the strafe speed to 10m/s is just retarded, you wouldn't be able to fly very well.

Where was Icarus born?
Aboard the SDS StarSearcher - Deep space research vessel.

What is his family like?
Parents killed by rading party, aboard the aforementioned ship. There are unconfirmed reports he has a younger sister...

What is Icarus's favorite drink?
Rum

Quote one of Icarsus's IC comments.
Die... Sucker!

What does Icarus look like? Short? Tall? Bald? Long Haired?
Blue-eyed?
Unknown - Anyone who meets him in person dissappears...

Is Icarus religious?
Absolutley not.

What motivates Icarus?
Money, Reputation and Power

What is Icarus's political affiliation?
None

What is Icarus's career?
Mercenary

If Icarus is a 'pirate' why doesn't he focus on cargo carrying vessels to attack?
Why restrain himself?

If Icarus is a soldier, why doesn't he have a 'rank'?
Captain of his own vessel...

Celebrim, DS4 is/was a character. Let me copy-paste the bio:

Callsign: Defense Ship 4
Real name: Bacix Tenra
DOB: ***CLASSIFIED***
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 160 lbs
Eyes: blue
Hair: military-style crewcut.
Bio: Growing up in a "school of hard knocks," Bacix joined the Itani military at the minimum age and has quickly risen in rank to a long-range patroller/surgical-attack pilot. He pilots the standard Itani Valkyrie, but is occasionally seen in a stolen Neutral Maurader when supplimenting his private credit account. His orders are to protect all innocent traders, Itani and otherwise, from pirates, hostile griefers and shady characters. Most often, he will wait for a cry of help before attacking, but has been known to execute preemptive strikes in dangerous enviroments. He is most often found somewhere between Sectors 14 and 15, and occasionally in 4.

So if you think of your character as a character, why aren't you IC more of the time? Why do I never hear IC conversation online? Is it just that the universe is currently so thin that he doesn't really support RP? I've RPed quite successfully in what ammounts to a chat room. What is missing that prevents this environment from having RP?

I do try to RP. Look at the logs from the past 4 hours.

Whoa... Camps=Bacix Tenra? D00d! :P

to answer on this point celebrim:

this whole concept of 'newbie killing' is something that is completely made up. The basic cultural universe of Vendetta is warfare and player killing and anyone that tells you otherwise is pulling the wool over your eyes.

I'll go so far to say that it isn't the pirating that drives people away, its the feeling that the community gives n00bs that they are ENTITLED not to be attacked. The whole concept that they as n00bs aren't so supposed to be attacked is more destructive than the actual attacking itself because it gives the feeling to n00bs that somehow thier 'rights' are being violated when a member of another team comes over and attacks them. This leads to the n00b experiencing more frustration than they would otherwise have from what is basically at its heart getting fragged in what is still basically a death match game.

The newbies have the right to get their spacefeet. When you start playing a game, you start with getting the easy people to attack, you know the bots. And pirates just take away of their right to be left alone and struggle to master or at least get to know the way and the controls. I've never seen a multiplayer game withouth a newbiemode. If you don't believe me: www.starkingdoms.com (first 72 hours is newbiemode), or some other MMORPG's like anarchy online or ... . You have to let them adjust to the game, but once they figured out everything, then people are allowed to chase them.

But like in every game, I never see an advanced person attacking a newbie or a semi advanced game, even if it is a wargame. There is something called morals. You are better then them, you can take them out with 1 shot, but you don't have to prove that. If they attack you, then prove it, but don't ever attack them yourselves.

Now to progress on the point of this being a deathmatch, you ar emistaken this isn't a deathmatch , this is even far from being a deathmatch. No powerups. I have to say the same thing about RPG, this isn't an RPG, there aren't missions, were you can base yourselve around. But what is it then, like the devs said , it is a TEST, this means it isn't a game, it's just a transition between the game and an engine. But being this, that doesn't mean that you don't have to keep yourselve to some of the more normal laws, namely don't kill newbies and act civilly. And if you don't, then you will get punished, like a small child that isn't able to uphold a couple of laws.

Naturally this is MY point of view, just like SirCamps liked to show HIS point of view, but that doesn't mean you have to try to convince everybody to your point of view.

cheers

To put it in the realm of absolute morals: It isn't nice to kill people who have no idea what is going on or don't know how to play a game. You are sacrificing them on the alter of selfish pleasure. If you want to feel good about yourself, go beat up someone who is skilled. Believe me, I feel a lot better when I kill someone like Arolte or Janelle than a newb, and I know you all do too. It's an accomplishment, something to be proud of.

Because it is not "nice" to kill newbies, I detest those who do. Because I detest these people, I try to cause them as much grief and harm as is possible within the realm and rules of a game. However, I realize that the only way to do this is to lower their credits overhead (Which means killing them). They don't care about their teammates or flag, so it's best to leave those things alone.

So, Celebrim, I appreciate your view on the subject, that there is no problem with killing newbies. However, I disagree, and only I can determine my morals.

I left Itani initially because of the self-righteous "Government." Also partly because of some notorious pirates, but more importantly, griefers (I won't mention them). However, if I leave Serco, it will be because of the pirates (Why be on their team, you can't kill them!), but more importantly, the griefers. Today, there were 2 blue newbies on. Janelle was griefing both of them. This is not "nice," and I wanted to be a nice guy and stick up for those that can't defend themselves. So, I logged on and killed, by myself or assisted in killing, Janelle 6 times. That sends a direct message: you grief, you're gonna get some heartburn.

If anyone would like to accuse me of being a hypocrite or self-righteous or "forcing my views on everyone else" those are all valid arguments. Remember, I *am* human and am not perfect. If I'm self-righteous or forceful, think for a second, who is going to be harmed by it? Surely not any "honest" player. Only those who want a cheap kill or a "Get-Rich-Quik" scheme. So, please allow me to accomplish my mission of making the game tough for these pirates, while I let you go about yours, whether it is exploration, or nation defense, or trading, or botting, or frigate-hunting, or what not.

A note: In every game, a strong hatred of pirates is essential for the storyline. In Vendetta, they same to be doing an OK job of instilling such a hatred themselves. However, there are also the police in such a game, which is who I am. :)

"To put it in the realm of absolute morals..."

Oh good grief. That is exactly why the whole question is so ludicrous. Absolute morals indeed!

"...I detest those who do."

Please save your righteous anger for more serious causes, good sir. Your detesting is in the context of a game itself detestable and poor sportsmanship and ruinious to the climate of the community. I think you very much are saying YOU personally detest such behavior AS A PERSON, and such

"I appreciate your view on the subject, that there is no problem with killing newbies."

That is not my view. My view cannot be simplified down to such a level, as ought to be evident from the volumn of material I write trying to explain it. Killing 'n00bs' in a combat simulation is not a black and white issue of absolute morals. My objection is to the attitude toward the problem, and your proposed solutions.

*notes rampant sarcasm*

Thanks Celebrim. I was merely pointing out what is guiding me as a gamer.

You have as much right to kill a newbie as I do to protect him.

"Your detesting is in the context of a game itself detestable and poor sportsmanship and ruinious to the climate of the community."

OK, so now I can't role-play? My detesting something in the context of a game is itself detestable? What are we supposed to do, fly around and dispense the "love ions" that were so popular in 3.1? If you can't take the role-playing, you should be playing UT2K3, not Vendetta. In UT2K3, it's a welcome relief to find a newb, he's an easy kill and another easy point. But, like we've said before, Vendetta is NOT such a game. Dying has consequences.

All I'm asking is for a bit more civility in-game.

As long as your detesting IS role-playing and not you as a player detesting your fellow players, and you as a player becoming angry and uncivil - I've no problem with it.

But the best sort of in character [IC] insults are those that are tinged with a strong hint of good humor, so that the target of those IC insults _knows_ that nothing personal is meant.

"You rebel scum.."

"Prepare to die you scurvy space pirate..."

Is fine.

"I'M GOING TO KILL YOU YOU M*#$^%$#@% F@#%#@$ B@!#$@$."

Is probaby a bad idea unless you are pretty good friends with the person you are insulting and are privately chatting. Even then, I'd preface the above with '[IC]' just so the player knew it was 'Sharper' and not me talking.

And once you take such 'detesting' out to a OOC forum (like this one) you cannot use 'role playing' as an excuse.

Celebrim, the problem is being dealt with IC. Look at the first post.

Also, I was explaining the morals that guide my role-playing.

The problem is that these griefers are NOT playing IC. Look at <<<<<gold killer>>>>>. That's not in-character. Now, maybe he could have been named "Serco Raider," or something along those lines. That would have been much more appropriate. However, it is better for the general community for me to grief him than to have him griefing anyone OOC. He knows DS4's character, which is explicitly anti-pirate/anti-griefer. If he runs across DS4 or commits acts that get DS4's attention, well, God help him.