Forums » General
First of all, id like to say how much of a pleasure its been to play vendetta the last few days. I have seen Blues and Golds and Reds playing together nicely, apart from the obvious exceptions *cough* Icarus *cough* :-), which is something I havnt seen for a couple of weeks.
The community really sucked for a while. Heres hoping its back to normal.
Secondly. What is the status of the various governments? I have seen various threads but its all a little confusing. I know that Blue goverment is in a bit of a mess. Blue government website doesnt give much away and still lists StarFreeze as an Admiral. I dont know the urls to the other goverment sites.
Could anyone clarify the situation with their respective goverments?
The community really sucked for a while. Heres hoping its back to normal.
Secondly. What is the status of the various governments? I have seen various threads but its all a little confusing. I know that Blue goverment is in a bit of a mess. Blue government website doesnt give much away and still lists StarFreeze as an Admiral. I dont know the urls to the other goverment sites.
Could anyone clarify the situation with their respective goverments?
Itani Govt is right now holding an election to find out who is going to be StarFreeze's replacement, so don't fret. :)
StarFreeze not Starfreeze...sigh
/me wanders off
/me wanders off
what's the difference StarFreeze, I mean in meaning ??
cheers
Because , if people call me Renegade or rene in place of Renegade ++RIP++ I certainly don't mind :D
cheers
Because , if people call me Renegade or rene in place of Renegade ++RIP++ I certainly don't mind :D
edited it, SF... <huggles>
reminds me of EVula. He had no idea who Evula was.
We Neutrals don't have or need a government. We all respect each other and teamwork happens naturally.
We blues don't have a government either; we just have a few players who think that they are a government.
Which isn't to say that factions don't need governments because real governments are alot of fun, but that there is nothing for governments to do yet nor any means of creating one even if there was.
But I'm definately going to kill the next Neutral that tells me how superior gold is to every other team because frankly I'm really getting tired of it. You got more people; you have more active people; you have more experienced people. But when you don't have a numerical advantage in a fight, blue and red give at least as good as they get. You have some top players, but most of your so called teamwork and skill is simply having a numerical edge in most fights. Gold is rapidly turning into the team Blue used to be - a bunch of egotistical pilots who think they are good because they overwhelmingly out number thier oppponents so often. Mark my words, pride cometh before the fall.
Which isn't to say that factions don't need governments because real governments are alot of fun, but that there is nothing for governments to do yet nor any means of creating one even if there was.
But I'm definately going to kill the next Neutral that tells me how superior gold is to every other team because frankly I'm really getting tired of it. You got more people; you have more active people; you have more experienced people. But when you don't have a numerical advantage in a fight, blue and red give at least as good as they get. You have some top players, but most of your so called teamwork and skill is simply having a numerical edge in most fights. Gold is rapidly turning into the team Blue used to be - a bunch of egotistical pilots who think they are good because they overwhelmingly out number thier oppponents so often. Mark my words, pride cometh before the fall.
me wonders what would happen if their only logged on 5 neutral players against 20 Itani players. Me wonders if the neutral then still said, we don't need a government , teamwork comes naturally.
It has nothing to do with being a neutral, please get that, it has nothing to do with the government "or maybe a bit". It has everything to do with who has the most experienced not egoistical players on.
For the moment that is neutral, and that is why, like Furball so nicely put, the neutrals don't need a government to work together.
Sheesh, even if I was on together with 10 newbies, and we did worrk together , we couldn't hold of 3-4 elite players, even if we used the so called teamwork.
/me wonders off to hide himself behind something
cheers
It has nothing to do with being a neutral, please get that, it has nothing to do with the government "or maybe a bit". It has everything to do with who has the most experienced not egoistical players on.
For the moment that is neutral, and that is why, like Furball so nicely put, the neutrals don't need a government to work together.
Sheesh, even if I was on together with 10 newbies, and we did worrk together , we couldn't hold of 3-4 elite players, even if we used the so called teamwork.
/me wonders off to hide himself behind something
cheers
Itani has a fairly complex government arranged in a republic-type system. Detailed information can be found at http://www.roguelazer.com/vendetta/government.html . Basically, the general populace elects 12 Representatives. These people elect from amongst themselves 4 council members, who elect one Supreme Leader d00d. The remaining 8 representatives form a kind of Sentate which makes long-term decisions. The remaining 3 council members take authority ingame most of the time, and the Supreme Leader d00d (me) works on his website a lot. :)
On Celebrim's note (which I tire of responding to), the government DOES do stuff. We provide salaries, organize flag caps, and are saving to buy the biggest navy ever when it comes out. We have plans for some rather larger exploits later, but I won't discuss those this early. As for the several players, well, you never suggested something better, did you? Mert.
Eh... I'll write more later if it occurs to me. Stay tuned.
On Celebrim's note (which I tire of responding to), the government DOES do stuff. We provide salaries, organize flag caps, and are saving to buy the biggest navy ever when it comes out. We have plans for some rather larger exploits later, but I won't discuss those this early. As for the several players, well, you never suggested something better, did you? Mert.
Eh... I'll write more later if it occurs to me. Stay tuned.
Why the Itani don't have a government:
1) The number of people who have ever voted for the 12 government representatives doesn't number that much more than 12. Compare this to the 3000 or so characters that are in Itani, and the several hundred which are active to at least some marginal degree. Worse yet, the average Itani has no way of even knowing that such a representative system exists. The average Itani has no way of even knowing roguelazaer.com exists.
2) The government has no real ability to communicate with the people is supposedly governs. Members of the government do not automatically have thier titles appended to thier names, nor is any roster of them availabe in the game. The average Itani has no way of verifying that the authority be claimed by any member of the government is legitimate and probably sees no reason to care. I have no idea who my representatives are, and wouldn't know why I should follow them if I did. The government has no ability to leave instructions, messages of the day, or lists of rules within the game for new Itani's to read. The government cannot and generally doesn't advertise referendums within the game in such a way to insure that the public is aware of them.
3) The government has no real authority. It cannot force or even encourage someone to do its will, even if it had good means of expressing what that will was. It cannot do anything that any other group of players can't do and it has no access to resources that aren't common to all players. It can't create official radio channels, it can't collect taxes, it can't make treaties, it can't close or open stations, it can't close or open wormholes, it can't turn off or on defence turrets, nor control the AI units in any way.
4) Nothing that the government does requires a government to do it. The salaries provided by the government are nothing more than the same small group of people trading small ammounts of money between each other. Social programs administered by the government (that is the nurturing of newbies) are less efficient than simply having people with money give the money to the newbies, because the government is less likely to be on at all times than someone. For that matter, I don't know of any such official government program. The money being collected by the government is entirely voluntary, comes purely from conventional sources, and is largely simply the same small group of people pooling thier resources in the hopes that something valuable will appear before the next server wipe destroys the treasury. Collective pools of money at present have the dual problem of access (who has the keys to the treasury) and lack of accounting (who took the money is not recorded), neither of which is dealt with by the game, and both of which will lead to tension between players which is totally unnecessary given the fact that no real benifit is accrued by having a collective pool of money. There has never been anything in the game which requires the pooled resources of more than one player to purchase, and at present no experienced player is frequently without cash (and if he is then its generally by choice) and no inexperienced player has direct access to the government cash. Organizing flag caps require no particular allocation of resources and no particular heirarchy and very little in the way of command structure. Mostly all that is required is for every warm body to 'head to the sound of gunfire'.
What the Itani do have is a small occasionally devisive clan of players that bill themselves as the government despite the fact that there is no evidence that they are one.
1) The number of people who have ever voted for the 12 government representatives doesn't number that much more than 12. Compare this to the 3000 or so characters that are in Itani, and the several hundred which are active to at least some marginal degree. Worse yet, the average Itani has no way of even knowing that such a representative system exists. The average Itani has no way of even knowing roguelazaer.com exists.
2) The government has no real ability to communicate with the people is supposedly governs. Members of the government do not automatically have thier titles appended to thier names, nor is any roster of them availabe in the game. The average Itani has no way of verifying that the authority be claimed by any member of the government is legitimate and probably sees no reason to care. I have no idea who my representatives are, and wouldn't know why I should follow them if I did. The government has no ability to leave instructions, messages of the day, or lists of rules within the game for new Itani's to read. The government cannot and generally doesn't advertise referendums within the game in such a way to insure that the public is aware of them.
3) The government has no real authority. It cannot force or even encourage someone to do its will, even if it had good means of expressing what that will was. It cannot do anything that any other group of players can't do and it has no access to resources that aren't common to all players. It can't create official radio channels, it can't collect taxes, it can't make treaties, it can't close or open stations, it can't close or open wormholes, it can't turn off or on defence turrets, nor control the AI units in any way.
4) Nothing that the government does requires a government to do it. The salaries provided by the government are nothing more than the same small group of people trading small ammounts of money between each other. Social programs administered by the government (that is the nurturing of newbies) are less efficient than simply having people with money give the money to the newbies, because the government is less likely to be on at all times than someone. For that matter, I don't know of any such official government program. The money being collected by the government is entirely voluntary, comes purely from conventional sources, and is largely simply the same small group of people pooling thier resources in the hopes that something valuable will appear before the next server wipe destroys the treasury. Collective pools of money at present have the dual problem of access (who has the keys to the treasury) and lack of accounting (who took the money is not recorded), neither of which is dealt with by the game, and both of which will lead to tension between players which is totally unnecessary given the fact that no real benifit is accrued by having a collective pool of money. There has never been anything in the game which requires the pooled resources of more than one player to purchase, and at present no experienced player is frequently without cash (and if he is then its generally by choice) and no inexperienced player has direct access to the government cash. Organizing flag caps require no particular allocation of resources and no particular heirarchy and very little in the way of command structure. Mostly all that is required is for every warm body to 'head to the sound of gunfire'.
What the Itani do have is a small occasionally devisive clan of players that bill themselves as the government despite the fact that there is no evidence that they are one.
So basically you are saying that effective governing is impossible unless the "world" creates it naturally? Well, then let me make an announcement: THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY EFFECTIVE GOVERNMENTS IN VENDETTA TEST. That is all.
Congradulations, you figured it out.
er. okay. I think you all answered my question.
I sort of agree with Celebrim. The government unfortunately cannot control the whole of the population of the respective team, and there are always going to be some, lets say pirates, who's actions reflect on the whole of the population. I became a blue because I was sick of getting shot down by pirates. It was nothing to do with the ethics of the 'ruling' government.
I do agree that a govenment is a good idea, but to be honest it all depends on how it is promoted. There really should be some information that new users can easily get to, ie on the vendetta website, explaining about the governments and the benefits they can offer AND how to contact them. At the moment a user is only going to know they exist by chance.
Anyway, thanks for the answers.
Leafy (aka Castrol) Blue Nation
I sort of agree with Celebrim. The government unfortunately cannot control the whole of the population of the respective team, and there are always going to be some, lets say pirates, who's actions reflect on the whole of the population. I became a blue because I was sick of getting shot down by pirates. It was nothing to do with the ethics of the 'ruling' government.
I do agree that a govenment is a good idea, but to be honest it all depends on how it is promoted. There really should be some information that new users can easily get to, ie on the vendetta website, explaining about the governments and the benefits they can offer AND how to contact them. At the moment a user is only going to know they exist by chance.
Anyway, thanks for the answers.
Leafy (aka Castrol) Blue Nation
---Celebrim wrote:---
But I'm definately going to kill the next Neutral that tells me how superior gold is to every other team because frankly I'm really getting tired of it. You got more people; you have more active people; you have more experienced people. But when you don't have a numerical advantage in a fight, blue and red give at least as good as they get. You have some top players, but most of your so called teamwork and skill is simply having a numerical edge in most fights. Gold is rapidly turning into the team Blue used to be - a bunch of egotistical pilots who think they are good because they overwhelmingly out number thier oppponents so often. Mark my words, pride cometh before the fall.
---
A-frickin-men to that, Cele. You hit it right on the head.
But I'm definately going to kill the next Neutral that tells me how superior gold is to every other team because frankly I'm really getting tired of it. You got more people; you have more active people; you have more experienced people. But when you don't have a numerical advantage in a fight, blue and red give at least as good as they get. You have some top players, but most of your so called teamwork and skill is simply having a numerical edge in most fights. Gold is rapidly turning into the team Blue used to be - a bunch of egotistical pilots who think they are good because they overwhelmingly out number thier oppponents so often. Mark my words, pride cometh before the fall.
---
A-frickin-men to that, Cele. You hit it right on the head.
One reason I've stayed Red so long is because I don't WANT a ruling body. I will not take orders unless I think they are a particularly good idea. Further, I don't expect others to feel differently if I'm the one giving the orders. I was actually elected Red Leader quite some time ago, though I don't feel there were enough votes for it to mean anything.
I would like to see more cooperation among the Red pilots. This won't happen until we get a core group of like-minded mature pilots on at around the same time.
I would like to see more cooperation among the Red pilots. This won't happen until we get a core group of like-minded mature pilots on at around the same time.
Whistler. Email me at ctishman@mac.com for a SecureNet account. More cannot be said here.
Yes, i loved getting attacked by 20 golds on a trade route, then i complain and they said "We were caping!! Jeeze!", yah 1 blue is going to be a threat to 20 of you.
These are past expereinces, not current.
These are past expereinces, not current.
whoa... we have a goverment? by now you all know im sheep's owner... sheep is the other half of my mind... the lesser of me. But anywho... what are the overment websites...
but about teh gold capping runs our rule is "If it aint gold kill it." wait... im quoting sheep. but right. Yeah warning you all if you see 20 golds in your sector you can eaither engage in combat or run and hide in a station. (i know your prolly close to a station but if you in it i wont botheryou.) i cant say that for the rest of my team... but i do my best to be a nice sheep. Im usally not hostile and i will usally just aid golds that are being attacked. and if i have a grudge againt you **coughcough**luna**coughcough** dont take it personaly that you _-__-CENSORED BY SHEEPDOG-__-_. its for the good of us all.
/me sudders.
But what about the websites? oh yeh is there i link i can goto? for the gold website?
but about teh gold capping runs our rule is "If it aint gold kill it." wait... im quoting sheep. but right. Yeah warning you all if you see 20 golds in your sector you can eaither engage in combat or run and hide in a station. (i know your prolly close to a station but if you in it i wont botheryou.) i cant say that for the rest of my team... but i do my best to be a nice sheep. Im usally not hostile and i will usally just aid golds that are being attacked. and if i have a grudge againt you **coughcough**luna**coughcough** dont take it personaly that you _-__-CENSORED BY SHEEPDOG-__-_. its for the good of us all.
/me sudders.
But what about the websites? oh yeh is there i link i can goto? for the gold website?
When warfare is implemented (no, taking pot-shots at foreign players is NOT warfare) then we'll need governments to decide when to make war and when to make peace, to negotiate treatys with other nations, and to co-ordinate battles. Without warfare, though, there really isn't anything a government can do in this setting that a small informal group couldn't do more effectively. Any government implemented at this stage of the game would serve no other purpose than to allow certain players to play "I'm the King of the castle."