This thread is not about the program's suite of 3 missions to obtain the ship.

This thread is about discussing the new TPG Raptor as a war platform, it's usability in flight and other aspect.

Those who have obtained the ship are welcome to comment here and give out their opinions on it.

The weapons are too far apart to be easily effective.

Considering the layout of the engines, I would propose that it has massive forwards thrust but almost no lateral or rotational thrust. That would give it entirely different flight characteristics from other ships, yet still make it cool.

When you are in "reverse", thrust gfx do not come out of the reverse engines. :(

I've had the chance to try out the TPG Raptor last night. I used (destroyed!) a number of configurations to test our various aspects and try to figure out what works well on it.

First off, speed & maneuverability

Coming from someone that has used the Tunguska Aggresso a lot in recent months (it's both readily available near B8 and has quite good armor & weapon platforms), I must say that Flying a TPG Raptor is *nice*. The drain versus / acceleration / top speed ratio feels just right. I was able to pursue a (new) Rev C, but not particularly gain on it, wich is just about right. It's a relatively fast platform that can deliver the goods.

It has a low-enough mass to matter in combat. Slightly heavier than a Maud X, but has a bit more power so it does compensate. It is, however, difficult to use the platform in close-range combat against other more agile ships like Vultures or Centurions because it's a bit slow to turn on itself.

Weapon loadout

For such a mean-looking ship, I'm somewhat surprised (disappointed?) to see this is a 2 small ports ship. There are other 2s ships out there and it feels redundant to have the Raptor in this configuration. Given the ship size (a hair bigger than a Vult) I would have expected this thing to have at least 1L port on it.

I think a 1s1L configuration (like a Warthog) would be nice. I dont know if it's possible with the current game engine, but I would actually make various weapon loadout versions:

TPG Raptor: 2s ports
TPG Raptor MkII: 1L port
TPG Raptor MkIII: 1s1L ports

In the case of the current configuration (2s), one fundamental problem with weapon configuration is their spacing.

Looking head-on a centurion, you will shoot at nothing! The weapons are too far apart and it actually makes it difficult to actually aim anything when you dont have good auto-aim weapons. It feels like to have to fly at 45degree heading to make your far-away canon tip point in the direction of your opponent. This is a major problem.

IF the canon's aim point would converge to some focal point ahead, it wouldn't be so bad. But even that creates problems. Knowing the focal point of the Raptor would make it easy to avoid that specific distance and remain in the safer cone regions while shooting at it.

Cunjo and Thumblemaster made observations on the Raptor last night and I agree that this makes it a nice Rocket delivery platform. The ports being far apart actually gives an advantage by widening the effective proximity detonation range of two rockets (unlike a tripple-rocket Valk where the rockets are very close to each other).

But the Raptor's slow turn speed makes it harder to aim those rockets close enough to your opponent to actually make a difference. As a support (ganking) ship, dual rockets make a difference. You can move in fast, unload excess weight and watch perty booms.

But rocket magazines deplete fast and thus doesn't make the Raptor a much useful combat ships if you only plan to use rockets.

Cargo

The TPG Raptor can only carry 2 cargo units. That's a problem as well, given it can't pick up most batteries (any?) you may find. It's able to pick up two N3s on the battle field wich is nice but perhaps still a bit low in capacity given the size of the ship (compare a Mineral Extrator thog). So this ship would probably not be a usable CtC platform.

Looks

Yeah, it's the best-looking ship out there. it's sexy. It's sleek. It pulls a tongue at whoever is behind it (can I make that weird back flap red? Puleese?).

Overall

I think I like the platform. Bring those canons closer to each other, perhaps consider the Mk2 & Mk3 versions above and I think we have a winner.

Another plus thing is the chicks! Everyone wants to see it! Too bad I can't take anyone for a ride (hey baby! wanna ride? I have a bar in that thing!)

Well, if weapons are stored as cargo now, how long until extra ammo can be stored as cargo?

And FFS, how long until shooting ammo lowers your mass???

I agree with rogue there, ammunition should have mass.

On topic; I found the Raptor to be generally unresponsive, especially when compared to a vulture, which seems to be the closest rival in thrust, armor and loadout.

I fought one fight against firsm, having equipped dual Neutron Mk3, him in a rail/rocket rag. Needless to say, I died, since I got careless about the low armor (8.3k). The rockets took me down 50% in one blast (I think I counted one flare and dual jacks). I think my shots cost him about 30-40%.

Then I hopped into a trusty SVG, and instantly felt the increase in responsiveness, equipped a Neut Mk3 and a Gauss Mk2 (flares for those who hate ammo-based weapons) and fought Aon in this setup, him in a dual Neutron Raptor (my guess is Neutron Mk2).

Despite him taking me down to 56% initially because I was distracted by chatter in B8, i easily destroyed him using mostly my Gauss. It eats those like kids do sugar-frosted cereals. I survived with 20%-odd, so I overall only lost 30%.

The low cruise speed (55 m/s IIRC) further adds to its inability to close in or retreat.

Overall analysis:

For a special ship, this needs heavy tweaking, if it's supposed to be used for other things besides its (very good) looks, which are in line with the Marauder, with its decentralised engines and weapons.

It seems the UIT (UIT, not the corporations) get the short end of the stick again, with the Serco having the Prometheus variants and the SVG, and the Itani having the Valkyrie variants and the IBG, leaving the UIT with the Marauder and the Raptor, both middle-class ships and not too far away in combat roles one from the other, not accounting for the meagre cargo space of the Raptor.

Another 2S ship? Isn't that like beating a dead horse?

And a semi-crappy ship that tries to do a little of everything but not good in any of them is what the UIT are about! Look at the Maud.

April 2, 4434

I'd like to thank the TPG corporation for allowing me this chance to report in. Once the Certification computer was replaced in Asuin Holdings, I have been able to obtain the necessary certification papers I have compiled the following preliminary product testing report:

LeberMac, test pilot #013, TPG Corp official Internal Memo
*** SECRET ***

My initial experience with the TPG Raptor is negative. As a light-fighter pilot, I find that the prototype vessel as-is has several flaws that makes its use in combat questionable if not dangerous.

The ship is a huge target, it's rather easy to hit with almost any weapon setup. The armor is less than a Hornet's or Marauder's, and its performace as far as thrust-to-mass ratio and top speed is sub-par.

Due to its length, it's easy flare-bait, since (assuming that opponents are face to face with other) the flares have a longer stretch of contact area with which to hit with splash damage.

The weapons spacing is interesting. I'd like to see what would happen with this ship if its cruising speed was 75 m/s like the old Corvus Vult, so the strafing speed would be increased. If you could "box" in your enemy with alternate firing, being able to strafe quickly to prevent them from escaping your widened firing range would be... interesting.

Overall the prototype ship shows promise, but it needs to fill a niche. Right now, the niche it's trying to occupy is already filled by the Rev C or IBG Centurion, or the Vulture. Both the Cent and Vult drastically outperform the Raptor. So either the Raptor's specs need to be improved upon, or it needs to try to fill a different niche. If released today, the TPG Raptor won't be a big seller.

If you think of ships being merely delivery platforms for weapons, then the Raptor needs a niche to fill besdes the light 2-weapon port ship. How about a 1-L port ship? How about a rearward-firing S-port?

More recommendations will be issued upon further testing, if TPG feels it profitable to extend my contract.

Best regards,
--
LeberMac
Councilmember, [Itan]

The ship is nice, but it does need some modifications.

As has been allready stated the weapons ports are far apart, i felt like i was shooting from a moth to be honest.

I found the ship somewhat sluggish in combat, but the main detriment was that its size makes it an easy target, with no narrow end the ship just soaks up fire, and its low armor doesn't help in that regard.

Suggestions for possible changes:
-add another S-port right in the nose. giving it 3 shots spaced out in a straight line would provide a decent shot spacing in combat.

-without changing any of the other stats on it, boost its turbo thrust up significantly, make it an excellent straight line sprinter, giving it a role as a chase ship over short distances.

-the ship just looks futuristic, this thing screams for a special equipment port that would allow it to cloak itself or disrupt all radar in X distance or decoy all seeker missiles in range or something along those lines. make it a Electronics Warfare ship in a support role instead of trying to make it combat capable on its own.

any of the above 3 could be done by itself or in conjunction with each other, but my personal belief is that doing more than 2 of the above would make the ship overpowered.

make love
not war

---INCOMING TRANSMISSION---

Most of my thoughts on this ship have already been mentioned. This is by far the coolest looking ship out there. As far as a weapons platform, I think it's performance is still a bit low for a fighter vessel. As mentioned above, the wide firing pattern makes the Raptor ideal as a flare platform. Unfortunately its low thrust and spin torque make it almost impossible to fly with the added weight of two Sun Flare launchers. The best weapons to equip it with seem to be N3s or Law enforcement Nuets, as they are light and fast. I disagree with others that the firing pattern is too wide. I think it will take some getting used to in combat. Unfortunately, the Raptor's other performance aspects make distance control in a fight, especially against specialty light varients, very difficult.

I'm told that this is a prototype, and Im sure further modifications will be made, along with the introduction of specialty varients. As an introductory new model fighter, I believe it fits well along side Mk 1 Vultures and Centurions.

Tumblemonster Industrial is looking forward to testing other TPG prototypes.

---END TRANSMISSION---

REI•

TPG•

Authorized for release:
REI (RelayeR Explorations Incorporated) has announced an initial trial purchase of 10 Raptors •(see appendix a1)• from TPG Corp.
Chief of Operations and owner RelayeR has indicated that the prototypes will be tested on various short and long-range mapping sorties in hostile or little-explored regions.
"The Raptor, in it's current configuration, is a promising platform for REI. The need for scanner and defensive weapon mounting as well as quick maneuvering capabilities and a really comfy cockpit make this an excellent choice for REI scouts to test. Our pilots will work closely with TPG designers to point out any shortcomings, should they arise, as well as make suggestions for future variants."

TPG spokespersons would not comment on the deal.

end•

(appendix a1) The "Raptor" is TPG's newest light fighter platform. For further information, consult TPG Public Relations.

witness the violence inherent in the system.
tpg profits from the suffering of war.
businessmen claim conflict is bad for business,
but given a choice beforehand they are indifferent.

I was extremely disappointed with the raptors performance. Its slightly less maneuverable than a vulture, not even as fast, has poor turning speed, and has 2 s ports. Not to mention the armor is exactly the same as the vulture, and its a larger target. This ship needs to be hit with the buff stick, really, really hard. First off, I got the impression from the ships configuration that it would have 4 weapons ports. I mean damn, it has four handy mounting points that look a lot like weapons to me, and it just feels like it should have more guns, especially with its poor spin velocity. Its armor is pathetic, especially for a ship of its size, its a huge, lightly armored target. At 8300, its armor is equal to the vulture, exept the vulture is a far smaller target, even with its much larger top and bottom sides.

The cannons are quite widely spaced, but it is quite possible to hit something with both weapons equipted, it's just slightly harder. While the ship has 2 small ports, this will not do. Assuming the number of ports were increased, this would be livable, due to the damage you could attain when you could land all of the weapons blasts on your target. The acceleration and maneuverability are fine, I can dodge fire with this ship as well as I can dodge fire in a hog, and that's about what I'd expect from such a large fighter. However, I do think its top turbo speed should be increased. For a light, powerful fighter, I'd expect it to be able to put up a better chase, especially since TPG would be using it to guard its convoys. It would be far more cost efficient to destroy a running pirate, instead of waiting for the pirate to come back and harass the convoys again.

Over-all, thumbs down. This ship, in its current state, would get its ass shot off by a compitent pilot. And it is totally useless in a heavy combat situation. (If I'd tried to use the raptor for its own qualification tests, I would've gotten my ass kicked.)

Raptor needs tweaking.
Up its cruise speed to at least 65, give it more thrust and spin torque and add a 3rd S port. Raptor also needs an armor increase, 9k would be fine.
With a wide spread 2S ports good for mounting rockets and one central S port for energy gun it could be ok.
In its current state a good pilot in ec-88 equipped with a gauss or neut can kill it in 20 secs.

***
Err... the raptor, as it currently is, is not designed to be RevC level. Its a prototype. As a prototype, its quite likely that the current stats aren't even that of a Raptor Mk I.

I'm not entirely sure of this, but judging from a bunch of comments from the devs, I think they're moving towards each nation having their own style of ship - aka Itani Cent, Serco Vult, UIT Raptor, etc. Which I think is actually a good idea... each nation having its own flavor, and players NOT being able to buy every single last item or ship in the known universe regardless of what they do, or what nation they support, or what nation they're from. A step further away from pure spacequake, and a step towards rpg/strategy. Is it just me, or does anybody else think its a bit silly that pirate hunters are easily able to buy pirate ships (i.e. vulturius)?

Having flown the Raptor (briefly) I must say I have observed many of the things mentioned here already. One thing however that I think needs more attention is the positioning and harmonization of the weapons systems.

I've heard many times now that the weapons are too far apart for effective deployment of non-proximity munitions and ordinance, yet I've seen little talk of a solution.

I have two propositions to make, both of which involve weapons placement and harmonization, and both involve the addition of more weapons placements on the raptor.

In both cases, one important factor is weapon harmonization. it is integral that all non-central weapon mounts be configured to allow adjustable harmonization. Allowing the pilot to set the focal distance of the outer weapon mounts from the station or capitol ship docking bay. The level of adjustment needed may vary, but setting a focal point of any distance between 100 meters and infinity before launching would allow for productive harmonization without locking the raptor into a predictable engagement distance. If harmonization is not possible, the below propositions will still help, but perhaps not as much.

First proposition:
Undercarriage heavy weapon mounting.
If the Raptor integrated a single Large-port weapon mount below the cockpit to compliment its existing two ports, it would allow for better control of attack methods and higher precision in combat. The outer weapon mounts would provide excellent compliment for a central heavy blaster, and the Raptor would perform admirably with several layouts including the following:
Megaposi/Gauss, Megaposi/Flare, Plasdev/flare, Plasdev/gauss, Megaposi/Gemini, AGT/Flare

Second Proposition:
Additional small ports and weapon reconfiguration.
Two possible arrangements are the addition of two small port weapon mounts along either side of the cockpit, allowing for a similar attack mode as the first proposition, or, the migration of the weapon ports to the inside surfaces of the engine shielding plates, giving it a four-corner firing scheme. This second possibility would work best if weapon harmonization were possible, but would still allow for excellent alternating twin-fire or chain-fire weapon modes. With weapons on all four corners, the wide hitting base could be less of a liability and more of an asset. Then again, it would be difficult to adjust pilots to utilizing the platform against smaller ships if they didn't have the ability to define their focal point.

The Raptor is a beautiful ship, and it does TPG proud.

hmm...

perhaps if the metal shielding the "engines" was optional.

that is to say, you COULD have 4 weapons, but for each one you mounted, you'd lose 400kg weight, gain the weight of the new weapon, and lose 1500 armor from a max (no weapons) of 12k.

or just have 4 variants.

mkI- 10,500 hull, 1 weapon, 4.5k weight.
mkII- 9,000 hull, 2 weapons, 4.1k weight.
mkIII- 7,500 hull, 3 weapons, 3.7k weight.
mkIV- 6,000 hull, 4 weapons, 3.3k weight.

bear in mind it's still a huge target, so 3.3k weight and 6k hull? made of paper.

A 4s 6000 hull version makes it useless. The Hornet has more than that.

The Raptor would still be far more maneuverable than the hornet, with its weight decreased and those weapons added on. Potentially, it would make an extremely offensive, and powerful light attack ship. I'd back the 6000 Hull point + 4 weapon version against a hornet, due to the fact that the hornet would have difficulty hitting the Raptor, and the Raptor would have a lot less trouble hitting the hornet.

personaly i'd like to see the raptor have 1L port and then if the turbo-speed nerfing is finished (ie the slower ships get a perportinate decrease to what the fast ones got), the raptor would actualy have a potental role to play as the only light ship with an L port, and a reasonably fast fighter.

although i will say that with it's sub par combat stats, fast but less than ideal turbo, and fancy hull, the raptor makes an exelent vehicle for counting coup.