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We've recently had a spate of threads about the controversial "special thanks" to veteran players. Now, this is not a thread to dredge that back up. Rather, I want to discuss something else that came to the fore during those threads: 'elitism' among alpha and beta testers.
I posted something ridiculous in one of those threads about alphas getting super beam weapons and resetting all post release players levels. I thought it was over the top enough to be taken as a joke, but it was apparent from the replies that some took me seriously.
They could only have done so if they really believed alpha testers to be elitist pricks.
Let's set the record straight. Saying something like "Back in alpha..." is not elitism. That's crotchety old man syndrome, a wholly different beast. We alpha testers remember a lot of changes to the game and comment on them from time to time. I can see how this is taken as a form of elitism, especially in the way some posters take pleasure in showing off their knowledge of pre-release events. I'm probably guilty of it myself, and for that I apologize, but if the vibe people are getting is "I'm an alpha and I'm better than you", something needs to be said.
I'm an alpha, and I'm not better than you. I just remember things that are completely inapplicable as anything other than points of interest. Stop being so sensitive.
On the other hand...
Some alphas take it too far. I can only assume the recent "gimme" threads were trolls, because if they were serious, it's a problem. The community is small enough without rift between vets and 'new' guys. Every now and again I'll see something in game that makes me want to say, "Oh, shut up. You just signed up earlier than they did." I don't, because that would just start another of those 100 pissing matches that people hate, but I'm starting to think there needs to be some self-moderation.
I think everyone succumbs to the innate human desire to lord knowledge over someone else, but it needs to stop. Alphas, betas and everyone else, stop. Just because you signed up in 2001 or 2002 or 2003 doesn't mean everyone else wants to hear about it.
I'm not trying to bury the past. There's a lot of good lessons to be learned from the olden days and some funny stories as well. But that's what they should be - funny stories and lessons. Not tools to inflate your ego. Everyone has some innate sense of when saying something is just an ego trip and when it's a valid statement. Exercise that instinct.
If alphas show some dignity and post-releasers stop taking everything as a putdown, maybe we can put this one issue to rest.
I posted something ridiculous in one of those threads about alphas getting super beam weapons and resetting all post release players levels. I thought it was over the top enough to be taken as a joke, but it was apparent from the replies that some took me seriously.
They could only have done so if they really believed alpha testers to be elitist pricks.
Let's set the record straight. Saying something like "Back in alpha..." is not elitism. That's crotchety old man syndrome, a wholly different beast. We alpha testers remember a lot of changes to the game and comment on them from time to time. I can see how this is taken as a form of elitism, especially in the way some posters take pleasure in showing off their knowledge of pre-release events. I'm probably guilty of it myself, and for that I apologize, but if the vibe people are getting is "I'm an alpha and I'm better than you", something needs to be said.
I'm an alpha, and I'm not better than you. I just remember things that are completely inapplicable as anything other than points of interest. Stop being so sensitive.
On the other hand...
Some alphas take it too far. I can only assume the recent "gimme" threads were trolls, because if they were serious, it's a problem. The community is small enough without rift between vets and 'new' guys. Every now and again I'll see something in game that makes me want to say, "Oh, shut up. You just signed up earlier than they did." I don't, because that would just start another of those 100 pissing matches that people hate, but I'm starting to think there needs to be some self-moderation.
I think everyone succumbs to the innate human desire to lord knowledge over someone else, but it needs to stop. Alphas, betas and everyone else, stop. Just because you signed up in 2001 or 2002 or 2003 doesn't mean everyone else wants to hear about it.
I'm not trying to bury the past. There's a lot of good lessons to be learned from the olden days and some funny stories as well. But that's what they should be - funny stories and lessons. Not tools to inflate your ego. Everyone has some innate sense of when saying something is just an ego trip and when it's a valid statement. Exercise that instinct.
If alphas show some dignity and post-releasers stop taking everything as a putdown, maybe we can put this one issue to rest.
Heh. Now, a truly elitist alpha player wouldn't seriously suggest "alphas getting super beam weapons and resetting all post release players levels" - rather, an elitist alpha player might suggest alpha players being limited to buses, and having a max level of 3/3/3/3/3, and "I's still g01|\|g +0 p\/\/|\| j00 411!!!".
...
No boe, that would be the response from a Vet.
This game has been live for almost a year, yet some of the players that have been playing since around about that date are consdiered n00bs, well, I ask you, how many of you leetist bastards played when it was 3.6test ? not many up to the soak test, I know this 100%, I was out of work, and online 24/7.
Most of the vets that claim they are vets call me a noob, I have been playing for 3 years!
One thing to note : no matter what online game, there will always be someone who calls you a n00b. n00b is a state of mind, I know players that have only played for a few months that can kick my ass.
Ok, im not the best PvPer ingame and I personally wish the *I was in alpha before you* mentality to change, this isnt alpha, infact, its nothing like it, sure, theres the fond times we remember, but alpha sucked! (twas full of leetist pigdogs that had been there since 2.x.x.)
This game has been live for almost a year, yet some of the players that have been playing since around about that date are consdiered n00bs, well, I ask you, how many of you leetist bastards played when it was 3.6test ? not many up to the soak test, I know this 100%, I was out of work, and online 24/7.
Most of the vets that claim they are vets call me a noob, I have been playing for 3 years!
One thing to note : no matter what online game, there will always be someone who calls you a n00b. n00b is a state of mind, I know players that have only played for a few months that can kick my ass.
Ok, im not the best PvPer ingame and I personally wish the *I was in alpha before you* mentality to change, this isnt alpha, infact, its nothing like it, sure, theres the fond times we remember, but alpha sucked! (twas full of leetist pigdogs that had been there since 2.x.x.)
Good post Starfisher.
I try to treat everyone fairly until they give me a reason not to. I would consider myself an anti alpha leetist player but there aren't really that many players I take issue with. Most of the time I couldn't care less if you're alpha, beta, newb, dev or whatever.
I guess what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it isn't really a huge problem. Most of the players aren't elitists (well outside of normal video game attitudes anyway) There's just a handful of players who really do push the boundaries. Unfortunately, despite your excellent post I don't think people will change. It will still occur. However rest assured that most of us don't consider all alphas elitist. It's just a small handful who don't know any better.
I try to treat everyone fairly until they give me a reason not to. I would consider myself an anti alpha leetist player but there aren't really that many players I take issue with. Most of the time I couldn't care less if you're alpha, beta, newb, dev or whatever.
I guess what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it isn't really a huge problem. Most of the players aren't elitists (well outside of normal video game attitudes anyway) There's just a handful of players who really do push the boundaries. Unfortunately, despite your excellent post I don't think people will change. It will still occur. However rest assured that most of us don't consider all alphas elitist. It's just a small handful who don't know any better.
yes there is to much alpha elitism i know i go a little to far in it myself somtimes but i do not go over the line to often i hope, i'm no better than anyone else because i came in a little earlier any advantage that would give is long gone with all the many updates(witch is of course a good thing)
with that said there are still plenty more who know they are no better than someone just becose we have some old funny storys to tell and i think some of this elitism view is coming from just frendly reminiscing and thin skins and i have seen plenty of post relese players saying the line "go get better so you are capable of fighting me"
the view of alpha elitism i think is probably more coming from the fact that most of the old crowd have settled into groups of older players who we have known a long time and mabie the new players see us as a little aloof or apart becose of that ,i don't realy know in the end but we should all try to get rid of that opinion of us
with that said there are still plenty more who know they are no better than someone just becose we have some old funny storys to tell and i think some of this elitism view is coming from just frendly reminiscing and thin skins and i have seen plenty of post relese players saying the line "go get better so you are capable of fighting me"
the view of alpha elitism i think is probably more coming from the fact that most of the old crowd have settled into groups of older players who we have known a long time and mabie the new players see us as a little aloof or apart becose of that ,i don't realy know in the end but we should all try to get rid of that opinion of us
lol. No xava, you're cool. I don't think you could be elitist if you tried. :P
*log out, its just a game* <-- alpha comment sorry FM :P
but alpha sucked! (twas full of leetist pigdogs that had been there since 2.x.x.) Well of course! it was alpha! But alpha didnt suck! Some of us still long for things that had been taken out (avalons, etc). This universe is way better, but doesnt mean that alpha sucked. Some features of alpha that people really liked and thats why they like to remember back to it every once in a while.
-Black 2
-Black 2
Pffft, I'm fine with post-release players. It's the betas who suck.
It's just annoying when someone keeps clamoring for special treatment... even though they've been assured they'll get something.
the devs keep their promises... and yet they continue to whine about special privileges.
Most alphas and betas are pretty good about it, but there are bad seeds in every group.
Three cheers for the nice alpha/beta players!!!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
-Zoras
the devs keep their promises... and yet they continue to whine about special privileges.
Most alphas and betas are pretty good about it, but there are bad seeds in every group.
Three cheers for the nice alpha/beta players!!!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
Hip hip! Huzzah!
-Zoras
Couldn't we just have let the whole alpha beta whatever thing just die? I honestly don't care whether I get a special item or not, but I'm not making a whole thread about it. Starfisher, your post seriously reads like you're trying to lord your "non-elitism" over everyone. It's just as bad as people who try to be "elitist." Please, the horse is dead and decaying. Do we have to keep on kicking it?
That's the whole point of this thread, pigeon. I don't know if you missed it or what, but the past week has seen at least two threads stirring up the whole alpha VS post-release grudge. I'm trying to get everyone to talk rationally about it and let it go.
Ignoring something doesn't make it go away, especially in a community as small and dedicated to stirring it up as ours.
Ignoring something doesn't make it go away, especially in a community as small and dedicated to stirring it up as ours.
As I said in my edit (that I made while you were writing your post) your post has almost the same elitist qualities as the posts where people ask for special equipment. It has an incredible air of superiority to it that rubs me in the wrong way.
In a way, posts like this feed the trolls by acknowledging their existence. Yes, we're a tight community, but trolls should be ignored, and let their threads just die and be buried.
In a way, posts like this feed the trolls by acknowledging their existence. Yes, we're a tight community, but trolls should be ignored, and let their threads just die and be buried.
I count two threads started in the past month by one individual requesting special treatment... that's two threads too many, but let's not label an entire group of people as "Elitist" based on one individual's actions please.
We all want this game to succeed and (for me at least) there's nothing wrong with taking pride in having been here from (near) the beginning. Does that make me any better than the other players who signed up after release or warrant any special benefits? Of course not! I think it's beyond rediculous to ask for a special uber blaster that no one else has any chance of getting.
Saying you're an alpha is like saying you were a Phish fan (pardon the example) before they hit it big time... in the end we're all Phish fans, but some of us followed Phish around NJ before they ever went on tour. You're no more special than any of the other fans, but you discovered and recognized a good thing before it went mainstream. I guarantee that if Vendetta ever goes triple platinum, everyone reading this thread will have that same feeling.
In the end though, we're all fans of VO, so please, please can we stop this talk of alphas/betas vs. post release? That's the last thing this community needs right now. Remember we're on the same side.
We all want this game to succeed and (for me at least) there's nothing wrong with taking pride in having been here from (near) the beginning. Does that make me any better than the other players who signed up after release or warrant any special benefits? Of course not! I think it's beyond rediculous to ask for a special uber blaster that no one else has any chance of getting.
Saying you're an alpha is like saying you were a Phish fan (pardon the example) before they hit it big time... in the end we're all Phish fans, but some of us followed Phish around NJ before they ever went on tour. You're no more special than any of the other fans, but you discovered and recognized a good thing before it went mainstream. I guarantee that if Vendetta ever goes triple platinum, everyone reading this thread will have that same feeling.
In the end though, we're all fans of VO, so please, please can we stop this talk of alphas/betas vs. post release? That's the last thing this community needs right now. Remember we're on the same side.
Incredible air of superiority?!
Ok, people are starting to miss the point.
Crip: Those threads contained all sorts of anger over this issue. I'm trying to get people to talk about it rationally instead of letting it fester, only to come up at some point in the future. If it hasn't gone away in nearly a year, why should it just magically go away now?
I don't know how you got the impression that I was "lording non-elitism" - I'm simply one of the (I hope) many who is sick of this whole issue. I want people to talk about it, get it out of their systems, come to some sort of consensus and then let it go.
That you think I'm trying to do something like that is another symptom of the problem. You assume, for whatever reason, that I'm trying to boost my own ego through this and respond with hostility, when I'm not. Now you think I'm an elitist prick, and unless I managed to persuade you otherwise, you'll have that impression forever. Just like the people who believe alphas to be pricks - and without something like this, alphas have no way to correct the misconception.
Phaser: Who am I labeling as elitist? The whole idea behind this thread was to try and stop that behavior. I agree with the meat of your post, but the only discussion I've ever seen on this issue has been in those two threads (which broke down into 'alphas are elitist pricks' vs 'i'm an alpha gimme') and the various altercations on 100.
The only way to put this to rest is to clear up everyone's misconceptions. It'll be with us forever if we just try to ignore it.
Ok, people are starting to miss the point.
Crip: Those threads contained all sorts of anger over this issue. I'm trying to get people to talk about it rationally instead of letting it fester, only to come up at some point in the future. If it hasn't gone away in nearly a year, why should it just magically go away now?
I don't know how you got the impression that I was "lording non-elitism" - I'm simply one of the (I hope) many who is sick of this whole issue. I want people to talk about it, get it out of their systems, come to some sort of consensus and then let it go.
That you think I'm trying to do something like that is another symptom of the problem. You assume, for whatever reason, that I'm trying to boost my own ego through this and respond with hostility, when I'm not. Now you think I'm an elitist prick, and unless I managed to persuade you otherwise, you'll have that impression forever. Just like the people who believe alphas to be pricks - and without something like this, alphas have no way to correct the misconception.
Phaser: Who am I labeling as elitist? The whole idea behind this thread was to try and stop that behavior. I agree with the meat of your post, but the only discussion I've ever seen on this issue has been in those two threads (which broke down into 'alphas are elitist pricks' vs 'i'm an alpha gimme') and the various altercations on 100.
The only way to put this to rest is to clear up everyone's misconceptions. It'll be with us forever if we just try to ignore it.
Starfisher, I wasn't referring to you I was referring to the post-release players who have this impression that all alphas are elitists. I agree that that is a misconception that needs to be cleared up; since we're such a small community to begin with we can't afford to become divided.
All I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with taking a little pride in having stuck with a game x number of years or before anyone had heard of it... and please don't think that means I look down on everyone else or somehow deserve special treatment because I don't. I'm glad new people are signing up for ****sake. The best thing alphas can do is to make them feel welcome.
All I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with taking a little pride in having stuck with a game x number of years or before anyone had heard of it... and please don't think that means I look down on everyone else or somehow deserve special treatment because I don't. I'm glad new people are signing up for ****sake. The best thing alphas can do is to make them feel welcome.
I'm an Alpha player. That makes me special.
Just as special as all the other Vendetta players who fork cash over to the devs to keep this great game going!
If you care who was here first, it should only be as entertainment and to add a positive "Let's ask grandpa about Sector 9 and Earthly Summers" chat in a bar somewhere.
I'm not "elitist", so when I flash my alpha badge it's a JOKE!
I know most of you great Post-Release people can kick my ass in PvP, and probably have twice as much money as me, so YOU might be the elite.
I'm with Starfisher on this. Let's not devide the community into "Alphas", "Betas" and "Post-Release people". Let's devide into "Serco", "Itani" and "UIT" and have the war according to story, not according to who was here first.
Round 32903837565. FIGHT!
[edit]
OH! OH!!
I even figured out what the pre-order customer should get as a reward for being pre-order customers!
They should get a little box with the game in it and a poster with a map of the universe! Yeah!
[/edit]
Just as special as all the other Vendetta players who fork cash over to the devs to keep this great game going!
If you care who was here first, it should only be as entertainment and to add a positive "Let's ask grandpa about Sector 9 and Earthly Summers" chat in a bar somewhere.
I'm not "elitist", so when I flash my alpha badge it's a JOKE!
I know most of you great Post-Release people can kick my ass in PvP, and probably have twice as much money as me, so YOU might be the elite.
I'm with Starfisher on this. Let's not devide the community into "Alphas", "Betas" and "Post-Release people". Let's devide into "Serco", "Itani" and "UIT" and have the war according to story, not according to who was here first.
Round 32903837565. FIGHT!
[edit]
OH! OH!!
I even figured out what the pre-order customer should get as a reward for being pre-order customers!
They should get a little box with the game in it and a poster with a map of the universe! Yeah!
[/edit]
Because I have a Beta badge, that doesn't mean anything. The real badges are EARNED in game, and that shows if you are special or not. The good, dedicated players will have their stats, and badges to show for it... not on when you signed up. And I believe that alpha and beta users already have something special in the game - they have their experience with the game through all of its "growing up". With that should come knowledge, and that is soemthing special. The more you play the game (not mattering when you sign up), the better you will become, and the more friends you will make. The game is all about community and fun, nothing else. Stats can be bumped higher, badges can be earned, but respect from other players, and the pure fun of playing the game should be what TRULY matters.
I am the H0xorsorosoxooxorosx U R all N00bs.
I believe this settles it all.
I believe this settles it all.