Honestly an escort is an escort but, VPR is some what scarce these days and no offense to VPR but I've seen more VPR wreckage in B-8 than I have CHRN.

On the subject of VPR...
Most of the VPR pilots I see on these days are newer pilots and fair to middle of the road when it comes to combat. Most of them offer free escorts, but you have to wait for them and there is no guarantee that you survive the trip.

On the subject of CHRN...
Most CHRN pilots I've encountered are ace pilots. CHRN pilots I've encountered have offered escorts and a twenty four hour pass for paying a reasonable one time fee... (fee is usually dependent on the ship you are flying)... and I don't have to wait for them, just go through Grey and you will find them.

Many people don't pay pirates but lets look at this logically.
You're trading from Latos to Odia and can not find an escort. You see no pirates on so you jump into your XC and head out. You jump into Sedina and find Impavid or Smaug waiting...

option 1. Run and die.
option 2. Run and by some miracle escape, you now have a massive repair bill.
option 3. Pay and get twenty four hours unrestricted in gray and maybe an escort.

In my experience, if your ship+cargo= over 200k then it is in fact, worth it to pay

You're mighty kind.

I've also found CLM to be mighty kind, their word is golden.
I'd much rather pay than try to escape, it's worth it.

Nicely put Ryan. Here is my view...

1) If your caught your caught. Pay up. I'm willing to pay up to the value of my ship and cargo. After which it becomes a total loss and dying is more cost effective. I have not yet run into a situation where death is the better decision yet.

2) If you have a reasonable chance of escape, fleeing is a legitimate option. Many traders and pirates that I know agree that a good chase can be loads of fun for both. Pirates, if the target gets away, suck it up. Don't station camp or grief to penalize them for a good escape.

3) If VPR are available, ask for their assistance. The more people there are involved involved the more fun it can be.

4) Trade in an TPG Atlas X. Loads of fun if your looking to get chased. However, don't be a dumbass like me. Practice your jump evasion skills! Also Never Ever fly in a continuous straight line. You'll be flare bait if you do.

5) Check out the VPR wiki. A lot of good advice there.

Escorts from Vipers are free and effective. If you want to pay the rats, then pay. If you want to trade freely without the "rat tax", give us a call. We have a near 100% record with escorts of players who actually request them properly.

Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread. Convince other people to pay pirates instead of working with Vipers? Why? Have you been escorted by a Viper and gotten pirated? No, you haven't. The Vipers will continue to offer their services freely to any traders who are interested. I hope more traders will start to take advantage of that, not less.

It's also worth noting that even if a VPR member isn't right there to help you, there may be other players who would be. PA is often happy to assist traders with pirate problems, there might be a fee for it depending on the PA member in question, but it will probably be less than the pirate's toll. We aren't quite as organized about it as VPR, but we're very enthusiastic!

Bottom line: this is a false dichotomy, you don't have to choose between waiting for a VPR escort and paying a pirate. There are other options, only one of which I've outlined above. Preventative measures are the best kind!

"Escorts from Vipers are free and effective."
Well, they are free and to be fair... they are usually effective.

"We have a near 100% record with escorts of players who actually request them properly."
So do the pirates who offer escorts and 24 hour free passes.

"Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread."
What, you didn't?! My secretary is so fired! I'm just putting forth the facts.

"Convince other people to pay pirates instead of working with Vipers?"
Not at all, just letting people know that paying in many cases gets you 24 hours and/or an escort.

"Why?"
Because the "never pay" option gets people blown up.

"Have you been escorted by a Viper and gotten pirated?"
Actually, yes I have. Only twice but it has still happened and it can still happen to others.

"No, you haven't."
When you assume, you make an ass out of... well, I'm sure you know the rest.

" The Vipers will continue to offer their services freely to any traders who are interested."
Thats good, its also good that others... CHRN, CLM, SYN, PA, ONE and ITAN are willing to provide escorts in the right conditions.

"I hope more traders will start to take advantage of that, not less."
I hope that in the future traders do what they need to do to survive the trip, be it escorts or paying the pirates.

There is of course the also VPR pilot who pirated me in Itani space while I was on an escort run. I don't hold that against VPR because lets face it, there is no way to weed out all the bad seeds all the time.

Viper's don't have anything like 100% success in escorts unless they're only counting escorts where they don't actually encounter pirates. Worse, Viper's have a record of causing otherwise cleared traders to get popped, and I'll give you an example.

The situation: A trader in a moth XC jumps into B8, unfortunately surrounded by 3 CHRN pirates. We hail as we always do. The trader recognizes his situation and agrees to pay.

The conflict: Strat jumps in about 4k out from the WH. I announce on sector chat that the trader is going to pay and strat should stay back.

The result: Strat burns in like an idiot, killing himself and the trader in the process. We get about 750k in cargo. The trader would have gotten 24 hours of clear trade for about 1/3 of the price, instead he logged in anger.

It really is easier to pay the toll. We're even happy to help you out that day if you need it, and pirates generally respect each others profits, meaning if you pay one for the day, you've paid them all (if they're online).

Kharon's Shores is far too effective a fighting unit to not catch most of our targets, and the Vipers are truly too inept to protect anything. Pay and go about your profits.

Ryan, I'm not sure what Viper apparently pirated you. I have my doubts, but any issues like that can be taken to me or Duncan directly. As far as our record, I stand by what I said. My personal record is 100% for arranged escorts, so long as the trader followed instructions. There were 2 times when the trader messed up and went ahead on his own, but in both cases we were able to recover the cargo and complete the mission. As far as other Vipers, they typically report on the events of the day, be they positive or negative, and I haven't received any reports of escorts failing. It just doesn't normally happen.

Anyone can throw out any claims they want here and there is no way for anyone to confirm or prove them, so it's a bit silly, but again, I stand by what I said. That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

Strat, you can have all the doubts you like... it doesn't change the facts. The whole piracy thing isn't an issue. It actually worked out form me, the VPR pilot in question allowed me to boom him in return and I tanked my Tani standing... (I wanted to do that on my own terms rather than wait for the redux). I did report it to some one... mainly because, I had heard of VPR being infiltrated by pirates in the past and I wanted you guys to have a heads up.

All that aside, I'm not saying VPR isn't good at what it does but, you guys aren't always around. I'm simply laying out other options for traders that are more profitable than dying. Really, I'm not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally.

I think we can move this to RP now.

/edit: The forum list says "Role Playing: Discussion of in-game events, organizations, and the like." No role playing required.

Despite the lack of Role Playing.

What's wrong with ye people?
PAY yer VeryPiRates for safe passage!

: )

PS :
Personally i will continue to eat (or at least try) who i want to.
So fight or flee : ]

yer BSI

I'll take flee any time:)

flee is also an option... but with the pirates being fairly organized, I think that opton is going to start doing poorly.

Ryan, did you learn to fight well enough to kill any pirate in your first month of playing? VPR has been a bit unactive before, but now we are growing with many new applicators. Give them time to become better at PvP, VO is not the game to play if you want to be able to kill the best people after a week of practice.

We highly suggest you do not pay because first off, the pirates usually ask for more then your ship and cargo costs, and though you get 24 hours of free pass through greyspace, after that 24 hours pirates will look for you, knowing that you will pay. By paying pirates just makes them keep coming back for you.

I also have a 100% success record for escorts, so if ya see me ingame and need one, feel free to ask and I will happily accept ;).

We highly suggest you do not pay because first off, the pirates usually ask for more then your ship and cargo costs, and though you get 24 hours of free pass through greyspace, after that 24 hours pirates will look for you, knowing that you will pay. By paying pirates just makes them keep coming back for you.

They really know how to fill you up with lies in VPR academy, don't they?

I rarely charge much more than the value of someone's ship/weapons alone, much less their entire cargo along with it. If you're carrying worthless cargo, that isn't really my problem. I am usually willing to negotiate though, assuming you cooperate.

Furthermore, I only hunt down people who refuse to pay, and I often end up killing them 5 or 6 times over. People who show that they are willing to cooperate get discounts, escorts, and occasionally even a free pass.

Bottom line: paying your passage is worth it. You make a lot more profit if you pay than you would if you don't

people know when i say "you have 24 hours", i mean just that.
yes, i will pirate you again.
i'm a pirate. it's what i do.

run = death
drop mines = death
face your ship at me = death (swarms to the face, never a friendship maker)

i have never killed anyone that has payed me. piracy is a business. backstabbing is bad for business.

if you pay me, then type [4357] TheBlackFlag spotted in Dau
there's a good chance that might get you shot. that's about the only exception i can think of. if you want to pay me then rat me out, us PM or guild chat where i can't see it. out of sight, out of mind.

oh, and yes. i do love a good chase.

/me looks for Hortan

What TBF just said. Though I'll add to it that if you don't power down your engines promptly after the first couple of shots hit your hull, I'm probably just going to blow you away. If you're in a trade ship and you're trying to run from a 'Hound that's within weapons range, you're just being silly.

You can pay, or you can visit the Void. Both will not happen unless you do something really stupid, but one of the two most assuredly will.

Shit, I gotta come in-game. HAI TBF!