ShankTank pointed out that flaw. My solution isn't perfect. However, I'm open to suggestions. I've made it clear from the start that the goal should be to eliminate the advantage of destroying your own turrets. It should be that you wouldn't want someone else who doesn't have a key to blow up your turret either, so you wouldn't ask them to.

There's two things at work here: one is killing a turret so it will get back at full strength sooner, the other is a strategic timing issue. A good approach to address the first one is indeed making the respawn time for any dead turret longer, which solves having non-keyed people kill them on behalf of station owners for that reason.

A bigger deal is the defenders wanting the last turret to die at a certain time advantageous to them. Here is where FF is needed to bar anyone with a key from "taking one for the team" and giving defenders an advantage.

Ultimately, though, the conquest mechanic itself needs further tweaking. A non-key holder friendly to the defenders might finish off the last one or two turrets on behalf of a station owner and then take the station only to give it back to the owners, but they won't do most of the damage. Forcing attackers to group, and only allowing a member of the group that inflicted most of the damage across all turrets to conquer, would be ideal. Though as always, we need bigger groups.

I didn't really read any of this thread, I just wanted to share an idea. Sorry if it's redundant.

If turrets spawned with nearly no health and repaired themselves or were repaired by bots slowly over time then most of the problem would be resolved.

Other stuff like getting (temp) KOS for shooting your own turret should obviously be implemented anyway.

No to FF stuff - we got rid of it for a good reason and I for one dont miss it a bit.

The simplest way to stop the turret killing by keyholders is to never respawn a turret killed by a keyholder and KOS the turret killer untill the station changes hands.

If the Owners are dumb enuff to kill all eight turrets then the first non key holder to dock is the new station owner and everything is reset.

BTW dont forget there are more defenses then just the turrets planned.

I think Maalik's idea might work. It does a good job of removing the attraction of killing your own turret. If a turret is destroyed by anyone, it re-spawns after 10 minutes, but with 10% health that slowly increases over the course of a half hour. Turrets would begin their life after a conquest with full health, but after that, they take time to recharge after re-spawning.

As long as turrets defend themselves when attacked by key holders, and as long as killing a turret revokes your key, it might do the trick. The only problem is that it also makes the station easier to conquer, so things might have to be beefed up in other ways to compensate.

Yup yup. Other things would need to change to compensate for the effective defense nerf.

PaK: Your plan makes sabotage all too attractive.

Since People will always find ways to kill their own turrets, whether it be by themselves or with someone who's not keyed to do it for them.

Same principle applies for FF or any penalty form.

What if turrets respawn 'unarmed', and after reaching its point it requires 2 (or N) 'R.R.bots' visits to start shooting, and constant reload and repair?

And make previous key owners not being able to re-conquest station. At least get someone else to do the job. And attackers keep watching for who can't dock!

This would really discourage a group from suicide-conquest.

Maalik, I think maybe the increase in station defense required to make your idea work is hidden within your own suggestion. What if turrets always auto-repaired 3% per minute? That might compensate for the nerf of starting with low health after a re-spawn. We could also add a 30-minute "rest period" after a station is conquered where there are no turrets out and therefore cannot be attacked again. This would explain how the turrets start with full health after a conquest and would also give the current owners a break from the combat to enjoy their success.

We could also add a 30-minute "rest period" after a station is conquered where there are no turrets out and therefore cannot be attacked again.

That makes zero sense from an RP standpoint though. A conquerable item that is currently unconquerable because it has no defensive capabilities?

Forcing attackers to group, and only allowing a member of the group that inflicted most of the damage across all turrets to conquer, would be ideal. Though as always, we need bigger groups.

I suggested that right after the first release; Inc was under the impression that tying it to groups would add more issues than it would solve. I personally think it's an ideal solution, on the surface anyway.

No FF stuff...we got rid of it for a good reason

Yes, and what that reason was bears repeating: so that players would be able to interact more freely and realistically. A rationale that has NOTHING to do with how station owners/users should interact with their turrets.

Forcing attackers to group, and only allowing a member of the group that inflicted most of the damage across all turrets to conquer, would be ideal.

We already solved this problem with the two minute docking delay.

You think so, huh? Let's say a coordinated group takes out 7 turrets, damages the eighth, and is beaten to the punch by a random, unkeyed person who has been circling in a Hog II with a tube of swarms and a rep gun.

They pop the eighth turret. They get two minutes of docking exclusivity. And they're probably supporting the defenders.

Are you saying you think that is how it currently works, Lecter? It doesn't.

Gotcha. If there's already something in place to prevent that, then the docking delay is probably fine. I haven't taken the station since the last update, just killed attackers.

Yeah. I think a bunch of your previous posts were also based on the false assumption that the person who kills the last turret gets docking exclusivity, which is part of the reason that you weren't making much sense. As you would say; Fail.

Eh, I sort of have bigger fish to fry today. But it's good not to get bent over a barrel when talking with the grownups for a change, eh strat?

For me, only option left is forbidden suicide-conquest by making whoever has the key cannot conquest station "again".

Why kill your own (last) turret(s) if it will only lock you outside and unable to reconquest it until someone else does?

And the trick for having an un-keyed spawn nearby, he will be a foe for turrets, while they last.

Another possible way: Conquering party must, after kill turrets, drop one special cargo - and it must remain for X time inside docking bay, alive. It can be destroyed by defenders meanwhile; Or his ship must be there.

Even better for me, make a TURRET for that, and require 2 players in one ship to conquest station! That is required teamwork, rules out ninja conquer, and seems logical.

1) Prevent re-conquest. Who have active keys cannot (re-)conquest.
2) Requires 2 minutes inside dock pressing fire (ship or item)
3) Requires an special turret and a dedicated gunner, renamed as Electronic warfare officer...
4) Make temp KoS for who shoots his own turrets, must leave sector, station gets locked, turrets shoot back.

4 working alternatives. Time to lelector shoot back.

uh if you make someone sit inside the dock pressing enter someones just gonna drop an l-mine or shoot them

Bleh, your posts are hard to read, Alloh.

The killing your own last turret thing was already solved, as I said before.

I like the idea of bots slowly repairing turrets, but the one problem is that it will just be too easy to take out the rep bots and then have low health turrets to take care of.

I think this can be solved by giving the turrets shields over their health, or make the repair bots almost as armored as the turrets.