The Hornet's really pretty weak... let's compare it to a Centaur, since 'Taurs are about the same size. Let's also outfit them both with N3's and Megaposis, so the 'Taur has only slightly more firepower. We'll pick their Mk III variants each.

Armour ....................... 12000 ......... 15000
Cargo ......................... 12 ................ 50
Mass .......................... 7510kg ........ 15710kg
Thrust ......................... 240N ........... 480N
Thrust/Mass .............. ~320e-3 ...... ~306e-3
Spin Torque ................ 7.0 N ........... 14.0 N
Spin Torque/Mass ..... ~932e-5 ...... ~891e-5
Turbo Speed ............... 220m/s ........ 200m/s
Turbo Energy .............. 55/sec .......... 50/sec

So when equipped with very light weaponry they're more or less equal in manueverability, and firepower. When equipped with anything heavier, the scale tips favorably onto the heavy's side. What mystifies me is the significant increase in cargo hold. If the 'Taus can fit 38 more cu's with that 1 extra meter of space, what the heck are Hornet manufacturers doing with their ship? It's not exactly a small ship by any means of the word.

So here's the suggestion; double or even triple its cargo hold. Doing this would make it a sweet raiding ship. It'd have a 220m/s chase speed, enough firepower to bring down a 'moth, and when you're taking down trade ships it hardly matters if you're an easy target (as the hornet definitely is) or if a hold full of cargo weighs you down dramatically. If transporting resources ever became an important part of the Itani/Serco conflict, then it'd have a role other piracy as well.

The Hornet is an attack ship not a cargo hauler; there are variants with increased hold space to compensate when a few extra cu's are required.

The problem is that the two are too comparable in terms of combat capabilities, and so long as we are going to compare based on that contention, then we should at least compare based on their assault variants (read: faction-specific).

But, regardless, it is the Hornet's combat capabilities that need a buff (or the Centaur's that need a nerf), not an increase in the Hornet's cargo capacity.

Group tactics, group tactics.

But yeah, 1v1, the Hornet is pretty much a non-option, so a combat capabilities buff could help.

The faction variant stats are pretty close to eachother, in the same direction. I actually edited this thread later to make it the Mk III's. But if you want to get technical, who the heck flies neuts on that thing? Without gauss or rails you'll have a real hard time hitting anything, and with those heavy weapons the 'Taur and Rag are by far superior.

Alternately make it have pretty good turning so that it can bring those weapons to bear. The ability to track your target is an important thing when considering an attack, and is possibly the Hornet's weakest area.

quad rail hornet = Pwnage in its purest form

Hence why I mentioned group tactics. It's an assault ships, so it would boost up to and attack transports, then hang back and let the buddies do the pickup/defense work.

Of course, this would entail numerous implementations varying in scale.

I can't wait to try out a Penta-rail Rag...

The Valk is slightly less powerful, and tremendously more suited to that kind of group tactic. The Prom is equally powerful, and is a freakin' Prom. Of course both those ships are slightly less turbo efficient but they make up for it in speed. Who else would want a ship suited to taking out poorly armed transports? Well, the only other group is UIT of course. Pirates would want an assault ship. Hence why the additional cargo would add to the "make sense" portion. Not to mention that while being the size of a Centaur, it's about half the weight, so what else could fill that gap but cargo space?

Why are we comparing a hornet to a taur? the hornet is a medium ship (around 6k mass), and the taur is a heavy (15k). The hornet is in the same weight class as the hog, with similar performance.

I think there should be care taken with increasing it's cargo space too much. The mkII and Orion are both infini200, and the mkII already has "some" cargo space. Your displacing the rev.

I have an easy fix for this issue, make the 'taur bigger. Ever seen one next to a cent, hysterically similar in size, those 8 meters don't look like much. So make the 'taur bigger, make it look like it fits the role it does.

The hornet needs a facelift not a buff ;)

I think Inc worries about the quad-flare hornet in multi vs multi combat.

Although that's an issue with flares. (If you all haven't notice, putting flares on anything make any mediocre ship into a good one.)

I agree. A combat upgrade would be potentially dangerous to balance. However, since the Hornet has poor thrust, increasing its cargo wouldn't necessarily make it a better trading ship than the Revanent or Atlas.

You increased the mass x2 and increased the thrust+torque by two, that means that you effectively reduce the mass of weapons on it. I.e. a quad-flare hornet in your stats will handle as though as a dual-flare hornet (but with 4 boombooms).

If my memory serves, Incarnate has a hornet form he just hasn't put ingame yet.

I like how the hornet handles, but it is too large of a target for its speed.

Let's not be like The Five Monkeys here. Monkeys are stupid.

Compared to the 'Taur, the Hornet seems like it's just full of empty space for being 17 meters long, and sporting the maneuverability of a light ship. Fine! Then let it be full of empty space. Empty cargo space.

"But the Hornet is an attack ship!" Why? "Because that's the way it's always been done around here."

Also, if station capturing becomes a thing, I'll bet cargo will play an important role in *attacking* the enemy station. Eh? Eh..?

It looks like it comes down to size and proportion more than combat ability. Making it smaller makes sense from a logical standpoint, but then you have balancing issues. I like the idea of doubling mass and torque.

HORNETZOR

Does it really take six months for someone to go and get some wax?

the thing that cripples the hornet is the weapon placement.
and roda its alot less manuverable than a hog