Forums » Suggestions

Player teleport

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Aug 31, 2007 TheBlackFlag link
i kinda like the idea of not being able to teleport in or out of unaligned space. seeing as it's "unmonitored" and all.

plz teleport me to wherever them damn connies stop for lunch
Sep 04, 2007 csgno1 link
"Errr, why would they be ruined? You can't teleport cargo, or ships...."

If you are carrying ctc cargo you may have to fight the same pilot or pilots 3-5 times on a single trip if they could just appear at any station to buy a new ship and fly out to intercept you.
Sep 04, 2007 Impavid link
And that would make it less fun how?
Sep 04, 2008 stackman122 link
Well, one year ago some folks had a great idea. Teleportation. Let me be clear, I am reviving this thread because I think it offers some very useful suggestions. And IMHO, I do not believe that such an option should be cheap, nor should it leave much room for abuse.

I advocate for teleporting of players only (no cargo, no ships, no exceptions), only at particular stations, with exorbitant costs.

Let's bring these posts back for some reconsideration.

-R IBA 3.14rat
Sep 04, 2008 missioncreek2 link
I'm in favor of this idea! 15 + Minutes is way too long. I keep alts in different places to avoid the excessive wasted transit time. Teleporting is a much cooler option.
Sep 05, 2008 Jim Kirk link
I actually like the concept, but love my idea of implementation. Let me explain.

Anything is portable. Moth XC fully loaded or crappy bus with no cargo.

Missions may take place during the teleportation.

Here's why, there are only 4 separate Gates. One from deep Serco, Sol II to the UIT border at Ukari (4 jumps). Another from Itan to UIT border, Edras (5 jumps). Each gate has an accompanying station which is more like just a staging area where you can load all of your stuff into it. When you dock in it, all you have to do is select your load-out.

When you select your load-out, the station computer gives you an exact price for the cost of your journey before you agree to anything.
The cost for ships with empty cargo is : (tradingLEVEL X .1cr per ShipKg). So level 10 = exactly what the ship's Kg is...

Ships with cargo have additional costs separated into brackets for total cu. occupied by cargo:

CU Brackets :
1st: (1-20cu.) : (tradingLEVEL X .1cr per ShipKg) + (100cr per CU)
2nd: (21-40cu.) : (tradingLEVEL X .1cr per ShipKg) + (100cr per CU under 21) + (200cr per CU over 20)
3rd: (41-60cu.) : (tradingLEVEL X .1cr per ShipKg) + (100cr per CU under 21) + (200cr per CU over 20 and under 41) + (400cr per CU over 40)
4th: (61-^^cu.) :(tradingLEVEL X .1cr per ShipKg) + (100cr per CU under 21) + (200cr per CU over 20 and under 41) + (400cr per CU over 40 and under 61) + (600cr per CU over 60)

So the Maximum price you would pay would be for a fully loaded Moth XC, and if you were a Level 10 in Trading, that would be:
(10 X .1cr per ShipKg(30000))=30000.
+ (100cr per CU under 21) = 2000 ...32000
+ (200cr per CU over 20 and under 41) = 4000 ...36000
+ (400cr per CU over 40 and under 61) = 8000 ...44000
+ (600cr per CU over 60) = (140cu)x(600) ...84000 + 44000 = 128,000cr.

Obviously, it must be expensive for the bigger ships full of cargo, and the rate must increase as cargo goes up.

Once you accept the price, you are indicated to exit the station. Then you go to the Sending Teleporter Node, which is outside the station about 1000m away, and only lets you enter alone. The Node, is a big O, like a StarGate, but spherical in nature. The Receiving node is closed off and part of the station. The sending node has a conic part protruding in the direction to it's receiver, a quarter of a galaxy away. It has an outside door which opens when the next person in line is 100m away from it. It also has the newly developed turrets mounted to all sides of it to help the guards out in this area.

Keep in mind, only one person may select to go through the gate at a time, and each person has only 1 minute once they exit the station to get within 100m of the gate. If they are not within 100m in one minute, the Transport sequence is aborted and they are refunded. If there is a line, the gate sends them a message that they will be entering in less than 10 seconds. If it takes them longer that 30 to get inside, the sequence is aborted and they are refunded. Once the pilot is ready, their ship becomes pure energy and literally looks like a flash of light and brightens up the void for an instant.

If anyone or anything else tries to interrupt the transportation via being inside the sphere while it is someone else's turn, for over a certain amount of time (20 seconds), the protecting Station is alerted, and Station guards come out and attack the offender. After an offender is attacked, the station guards remain on alert surrounding the gate, preventing campers from inhibiting travel. However, the gates both have grey space nodes, and are not 100% safe...

So whaddaya think?
Sep 05, 2008 stackman122 link
Jim, my concern is that this would allow for players to take insanely long bulk proc missions in a quarter of the time. Would this produce a faction building loophole?

Then again, I would like to consider each idea I see in the light of a new faction system with different rules. But we do need to think about seeing an idea like this readily implemented due to its potential simplicity.

The previous posts, while outdated in some ways, detail a variety of scenarios in which players being able to teleport more than just their person resulted gross improportions that had players moving rare ships at high volume, rare cargo was moved without any threat from pirates and so on.

Personally, as a pirate, I am against any implementation that would reduce our already slim supply of potential victims.

What should be considered is: At what time point does traveling become more of a nuisance and less awe at ones' surroundings? Most anyone with a fast charge battery can travel about 2/3 systems every 5 mins. (complications like ion storms, long commutes while in the WH sector, and etc. can slow us down...) I don't mind jumping 2-4 systems to achieve my destination, but 5 starts to feel very long and time consuming.

Jim, I think that your suggestion for the location of teleport points successfully solves the problem of anyone having to travel too far and become annoyed, or worse to let the distance stop them from participating in a border skirmish and a nation war.

I'm afraid that any system allowing for the instant transport of anything besides the pilot would lend itself far too well the various exploitations.

TY for your time.
Sep 05, 2008 Jim Kirk link
Well I don't know, pirates have a unique opportunity here I think. These Gates will surely be a focal point for exploitation of Cargo Transport, Proc. missions. But because of the pricing system, the exploitation may not be entirely worth it. Pirates will surely be guarding the gates on the Grey sides. People gathering things to go in either direction are vulnerable. Edras and Ukari, while both border systems, represent legitimate potential for pirates to put a blockade on the gates for departures, or on the station for arrivals. People may just end up stockpiling items in the receiving stations if there is too much pirate activity nearby. Either way though, they have to get the stuff out sometime...

The only issue I can see bad for pirates is battling station guards, which is not too hard, as long as you got a couple of "lure pilots" set up.

In fact I can only see one negative aspect for pirates because it adds yet another "hole" to cover. This particular hole will surely be an attraction for many players and possibly form a bottle neck at peak times. Lines may form, and pirates can pick and choose their targets a lot more easily, as they are very likely to be defenseless. Say a line of 5 people exists. Each traveler, according to my post, will be vulnerable for at least 1000m. With a fully loaded Moth accelerating, that can take probably around 10-20 seconds at least. One guy from CLM shows up and makes the line scatter, and the poor guy who just left the station has a fully loaded moth with no where to go because the gate has waiting times for each of the people that were previously in line. He is completely screwed. Some people may be jumping out to other station sectors, or wormholes. Obviously though, this was the plan... CLM pirates are waiting at each wormhole for nub-cakes to try to leave, and they get boomed, and a pirate allied XC comes to pick up the scraps.
Sep 06, 2008 Pyroman_Ace link
Just my $.02 on the original post.

1: Good idea, I like it. How about instead of calling it "teleporting" though, it's simply billed as you flying as a passenger on another ship to your destination?
You are charged for "Food and Fuel Consumed", that is correlated to distance.
ex: Betheshee to Sol might only cost 1,500cr, while Sol to Dau might cost 8,000cr.

2: I would not recommend allowing missions to proceed through this, and no ships or cargo could be carried with you. You would simply be picked up and dropped off at your destination similar to how you are at an airport. You have basic supplies with you, but you don't bring a car on an airplane now, and you don't bring a fighter on a transport.

As for some of the "teleporting" suggestions. I have to note, there is no basis for this kind of technology that I can find in the backstory, and it rather soundly defeats the laws of space-time itself. Despite what I know some of you will say after I post this, VO is still ground in the basics of physics.
-------------------
Adding to JIM KIRK:
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What if (similar to the old EVN, or even Mass Effect) there was a series of "Jump Gates" that could be used. Located in only a few areas, (say, one each in Serco, UIT, Itani and Grey) that could be hopped inbetween. The Gate would simply act as an artificial wormhole. It takes you in, transits you through subspace, and spits you out the other side.
As Jim said, these gates could be located with new defensive outposts, or simply located inside already protected systems (such as Capital systems), and under guard by a capital-class (say a Teradon).

Similar to the way that the wormholes work now, several people could transit at the same time, it would merely be an issue of getting into the gate (I see the gate as something roughly 4-6x the size of present docking ports. Eventually perhaps even large enough for a HAC to fit through). This eliminates the worry of piracy a little, but the central locations mean players still have to travel a little on their own, which does still leave room for attacks.

The gates would not be a useful tool for tactical warfare, and even strategically the gates could be "Sealed" or "Locked Down" by the local government to prevent war fleets from transiting.

Think of the Serco/Itani having a blockade on each other. The Itani gate and the Serco gate do not connect to one another, forcing the fleets to move through another gate (UIT, or Grey) where another side could have "Listening Posts" looking for attacks.
Sep 07, 2008 stackman122 link
I like it. It solves the major travel issue, and it creates some new avenues for conflict. Jump gates FTW!
Sep 07, 2008 Phish link
If I remember correctly, Inc said that the current Galaxy will eventually just be the
center and more explored part of a much larger universe. In this case, there will
probably be larger wormholes similar to the one that connected Sol II and Earth in
the backstory, and will cross larger portions of space.

On another note, there may be such wormholes that only appear for, say, a week,
similar to an Ion Storm in that nature, but longer. Which could make a nice way to
traverse space, if you find the wormhole before it dies.

But, I think, part of the glory of a Mumorpuguh (MMORPG) is that it's big. You can't
just magically go from place to place. It takes time to get there. Just like in todays
world, with all our technology, it still takes a good 15 hours to get from say, LA, to
Europe. If you take that time away, it may make the whole universe feel like your
backyard, and how many of you play in your backyard when you could go
somewhere else?
Sep 08, 2008 BoxCarRacer link
Tube Racing.
Sep 08, 2008 Aleksey link
I agree that 15 minutes is more than enough to get bored. Heck, 5 minutes of travelling is boring (traders may have another opinion). Yes, I travel across all the galaxy twice on Deneb Run. Guess what? Deneb Run is exciting! Getting from Border Patrol to CtC is not.

So, we need some limited ways of speeding up the travels. We don't want players to jump like rabits around the Universe, but we don't want to spend 15 minute to get to 5 minute activity.

Limiting teleporting to nation space is natural. But I would limit it even more. Let's say you can teleport

* between one station in GR and one station in Initros
* between one station in Eo (Deneb?) and one station in Jallik
* between one station in Verasi and one station in Azek
Sep 08, 2008 bojansplash link
"Traveling without moving."
Frank Herbert used it in Dune.
VO backstory has something called Divinian transports... huge cargo/passenger ships.
What if they could use that "Traveling without moving" mechanics and instajump from Jallik to Deneb?
One of those commuting every full hour 24/7?
Sep 08, 2008 incarnate link
The Divinian transports referenced in the backstory are during a major confrontation with the Serco that takes place in Eo. They were.. large transport ships, from.. Divinia.

Anyway, I'm not really a huge advocate of instant teleportation, although I recognize that we need to improve our transportation situation. If I wanted to do something like this, I would simply "discover" a new wormhole between Deneb and Grayspace, on an oscillating timer (like it's open for 15 minutes every hour). Wormhole oscillations are also explained in the backstory, but have yet to be used in the game.

But, I don't really want to do that. I would prefer some kind of cosmic capship bus system (that only takes characters, not ships). The transport might be a stripped-down capship with little armor, but retaining shields (adding some real risk), and have some specialized powerplant / sensors that allowed it to jump while nearer to other objects and avoid storms. So, it might take you 5-7 minutes to get somewhere, instead of 15, but you wouldn't have a ship when you arrived. Also, all factional/border type issues would be handled at the time of purchasing the ticket.. you could only go to places where you would be diplomatically welcome.

There are a lot of things I've wanted to do with true "passenger transport" for a lot of years, but it's not really been a peak concern. A "bus" concept was one use-case, obviously having possible people-smuggling and things would be others (say, purchase of "fake ID papers" making it possible to breach the borders of an enemy nation via a passenger transport, but not standing up to scrutiny for purchasing weapons while there, and so on. Espionage type stuff).

Anyway, something like this would be more favorable to me than just creating instant teleportation between stations, or randomly "discovering" new wormholes between locations dependent on what locational gameplay is popular at the moment. I'm not a big fan of totally subverting existing limitations, or doing major remapping of the core universe and borders (linking Deneb to Odia, etc).
Sep 09, 2008 missioncreek2 link
I'm disapointed in your take on this, Incarnate. A bus that leaves every hour is of little use unless you happen to be ready to go on the hour. An hourly worm hole has the same limitation. Riding the bus is a loser idea. You just sit there for 5-7 minutes watching the stars go by. I think you have to bite the bullet and fix this problem with a wormhole between Deneb and Latos.
Sep 09, 2008 incarnate link
I didn't say the bus would only leave every hour. I assumed several of them would be in transit at once, so the wait would be relatively short (maybe a minute? or two? I figured that into the total transit time).

The problem with creating wormholes is.. where does it stop? So you want to get from Latos to Deneb right now. What about the next additions in gameplay, that aren't in Deneb or grayspace? Before long we end up with bizarre extra wormholes criss-crossing space in order to cater to the temporary interests of the population.

Even a solution that drops the transit time to 1/3rd and still exercises some degree of realism (as well as danger, in the event that someone destroys the transport) is disliked. Why have a universe at all if everyone can instantly skip around? Yes, some aspects of long-range travel are currently boring, but we're working to make them a hell of a lot less boring (and I don't think "excitement" during transit is really what you want here, anyway ;).

The problem here is, an MMO is not an instant gratification type of game. The intent is to develop a persistent online universe, not a series of gameplay options you can select from the menu (it could say "Sedina B8", "Border Skirmish", etc). If there are needs and requirements, we can try to mitigate them, make them less time consuming and frustrating.. but not completely subvert the entire setting of the game.

I'm also not totally against the concept of fast, very lightweight and fragile ships that could be flown from place to place more quickly. But that also adds a lot of potential for unintended uses that could be exploitative. So, still a bit uncertain there. I don't want to make any ship that's so fast that all risk goes away, or that can be applied too easily to harassing others without consequence.
Sep 09, 2008 Dr. Lecter link
I'm also not totally against the concept of fast, very lightweight and fragile ships that could be flown from place to place more quickly. But that also adds a lot of potential for unintended uses that could be exploitative. So, still a bit uncertain there. I don't want to make any ship that's so fast that all risk goes away, or that can be applied to easily to harassing others without consequence.

So just let us buy Seeker or observer shells. No real mass, no real armor, and no ports. Dangerous to fly in, but a threat to nobody.
Sep 09, 2008 incarnate link
But how fast would such a ship go? It would need to be very fast indeed, in order to approach the time advantage of say.. the bus concept. However, any such speed increase would also make it effectively invulnerable to common defenses (turrets, homing missiles, strike forces).. thereby making it a really effective border-penetration ship, even if it only had like 1 armor.

There are a lot of other ramifications to dropping in a ship that goes even somewhat faster (pirates would also be unable to run it down, for instance). Some balance would have to be struck to keep the utility of such a ship relatively limited to long-range transport through friendly/neutral territory.
Sep 09, 2008 Rejected link
Say this fast ship did penetrate border defenses? In a ship that has no ports, 1 armor, and no cu's of space, pretty much all you can do is fly through hostile territory. I can see this as useful for itani's looking to get to deneb through serco space or such for border patrol, but for espionage, the risks are limited, or am i missing something?