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The Skill-less Command Prometheus- Ode Agains AGT Proms
By tboyz007
Has there ever been a ship,
With any better stats?
Lots of armor, lost of ports,
And owned by those Serco brats. (=p)
It flies in and flies out,
Chopping all ships into bits,
Against it with a neutron,
You need 30 hits!
The pilot, in his uber ship,
Cares not if you hit him.
He knows that in his AGT shots,
He will make you swim.
He aims his automatic turret,
Anywhere on the screen,
When it comes to actually aiming,
This pilot isn't keen.
He fires his small sunflare,
Splashing you with flame,
And continues to cream you with his turret,
Knowing it is lame.
When a pilot in a smaller ship,
Centurion or Bus,
Tries to dodge his spray of doom,
He is reduced to dust.
The pilot in the Prometheus,
Charges at his prey,
Quickly immersing it,
In his deadly spray.
He doesn't bother aiming,
The turret does it all.
He doesn't bother staying to fight,
If he is taking a fall.
He doesn't bother dodging,
He's got 21,000 health.
He comes back with another one,
From his bounty-hunting wealth.
The prom pilot doesn't use much skill,
The ship and gun are all he needs,
When losing he'll make sure to run,
On n00bs in Centurions he feeds.
Why does he use this evil ship?
And why this Gatling Turret too?
Maybe it is because...
His skills are poo-poo.
Why not fight with honor?
Why not use some skill?
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
Any player kills."
We beg, we plead, but he doesn't care.
He uses his little tank of doom.
May I suggest we place this ship,
Into the nerfing room?
Has there ever been a ship,
With any better stats?
Lots of armor, lost of ports,
And owned by those Serco brats. (=p)
By tboyz007
Has there ever been a ship,
With any better stats?
Lots of armor, lost of ports,
And owned by those Serco brats. (=p)
It flies in and flies out,
Chopping all ships into bits,
Against it with a neutron,
You need 30 hits!
The pilot, in his uber ship,
Cares not if you hit him.
He knows that in his AGT shots,
He will make you swim.
He aims his automatic turret,
Anywhere on the screen,
When it comes to actually aiming,
This pilot isn't keen.
He fires his small sunflare,
Splashing you with flame,
And continues to cream you with his turret,
Knowing it is lame.
When a pilot in a smaller ship,
Centurion or Bus,
Tries to dodge his spray of doom,
He is reduced to dust.
The pilot in the Prometheus,
Charges at his prey,
Quickly immersing it,
In his deadly spray.
He doesn't bother aiming,
The turret does it all.
He doesn't bother staying to fight,
If he is taking a fall.
He doesn't bother dodging,
He's got 21,000 health.
He comes back with another one,
From his bounty-hunting wealth.
The prom pilot doesn't use much skill,
The ship and gun are all he needs,
When losing he'll make sure to run,
On n00bs in Centurions he feeds.
Why does he use this evil ship?
And why this Gatling Turret too?
Maybe it is because...
His skills are poo-poo.
Why not fight with honor?
Why not use some skill?
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
Any player kills."
We beg, we plead, but he doesn't care.
He uses his little tank of doom.
May I suggest we place this ship,
Into the nerfing room?
Has there ever been a ship,
With any better stats?
Lots of armor, lost of ports,
And owned by those Serco brats. (=p)
It is the ultimate noob ship. (tho i regret saying since i am serco)
But i don't care as long as they give us a ship to fight against it. Just a ship with an edge!
But i don't care as long as they give us a ship to fight against it. Just a ship with an edge!
Poetic genius. Can we get this man a medal or something?
I actually almost like uber-AGT+Proms. They're a whole buncha fun to fight against. And it's a total rush on such occasions as your opponent is lagging enough that you actually win. ;-)
I consider the Rev C a more difficult opponent than the Prometheus. It isnt hard to dodge the shots from the AGT it jusr takes mroe skill than it does to fire them.
Why are people calling it the ultimate n00b ship? The Rev C is far more common and it is because of the fact that it requires less skill in combat since it dodges a hell of a lot easier than most ships (I will admit there are some good pilots using the Cents as well).
The thing is balance is needed. If they modify the Prom then a balance will be needed to the Cent as well. Besides it just means a tactic is needed to be developed against these ships... Much easier to come up with a tactic than when fighting a Cent. It is a good ship but it seems to have more balance than the Cent.
I do agree that it is a cheesey weapon. I also happen to think that here should be no reverse or strafing but that is just me.
Since I know people will question why I dislike the strafing aspect of the game is:
1) It feels weird to move at full speed sideways when there is no propulsion system sending you in that direction.
2) It increases the odds by a large amount that the more agile ship will win.
3) I prefer the airplane dogfight style of combat (Im an IL-2 junky so that is partially why).
A greater balance would occur (IMO) without strafing since the slower ship could be circled by the agile ships like sharks but the big ship will be forced to take some hits but can take out an enemy with proper aim. This would change the weapon systems by a bit more. Allowing slower fire weapons to actually be used. Also it would mean that small weapons would need a decrease in damage or large weapons would need an increase.
Now I am sure that most people wont agree with my idea and I doubt that it will be considered w/o enough people backign the idea anyway since it would be a drastic change on the gameplay.
Why are people calling it the ultimate n00b ship? The Rev C is far more common and it is because of the fact that it requires less skill in combat since it dodges a hell of a lot easier than most ships (I will admit there are some good pilots using the Cents as well).
The thing is balance is needed. If they modify the Prom then a balance will be needed to the Cent as well. Besides it just means a tactic is needed to be developed against these ships... Much easier to come up with a tactic than when fighting a Cent. It is a good ship but it seems to have more balance than the Cent.
I do agree that it is a cheesey weapon. I also happen to think that here should be no reverse or strafing but that is just me.
Since I know people will question why I dislike the strafing aspect of the game is:
1) It feels weird to move at full speed sideways when there is no propulsion system sending you in that direction.
2) It increases the odds by a large amount that the more agile ship will win.
3) I prefer the airplane dogfight style of combat (Im an IL-2 junky so that is partially why).
A greater balance would occur (IMO) without strafing since the slower ship could be circled by the agile ships like sharks but the big ship will be forced to take some hits but can take out an enemy with proper aim. This would change the weapon systems by a bit more. Allowing slower fire weapons to actually be used. Also it would mean that small weapons would need a decrease in damage or large weapons would need an increase.
Now I am sure that most people wont agree with my idea and I doubt that it will be considered w/o enough people backign the idea anyway since it would be a drastic change on the gameplay.
daikaze-good post. I disagree with you on your orion cent point. The prom can be used almost like a turret itself, just pivoting and shooting. If the rev c did that, it would be destroyed in an instant. Only a good pilot can use any light ship to it's full ability. The rev c is one of the best light ships in the game, it is either piloted extremely well or extremely poorly. In a prom, *for the most part* most pilots are about the same.
However in your strafing point, I have to say...they way to put it makes it sound logical. I think strafing should stay in the game, (it allows for some great self-dodging, and makes dodging possible) but your point is extremely valid and well argued. You're right, it would be a major game change and most likely not implemented, but it is a valid opinion anyway. Dogfights would be fun, however it would take a lot of the fun out of trying to dodge.
And thanks kixkizzle for going against your Serco backround and agreeing with an Itani about an unfair serco ship. tboyz007 standing increased noticeably.
However in your strafing point, I have to say...they way to put it makes it sound logical. I think strafing should stay in the game, (it allows for some great self-dodging, and makes dodging possible) but your point is extremely valid and well argued. You're right, it would be a major game change and most likely not implemented, but it is a valid opinion anyway. Dogfights would be fun, however it would take a lot of the fun out of trying to dodge.
And thanks kixkizzle for going against your Serco backround and agreeing with an Itani about an unfair serco ship. tboyz007 standing increased noticeably.
A good prom pilot is noticeably better than a poor one, and a good rev c pilot is noticeably better than a poor one. Both are better than even the most spectacular pilots in a hornet, and even mediocre pilots in a rev c or a prom can take a good pilot in a valk.
Both ships amplify pilot skill more than other ships do.
Both ships amplify pilot skill more than other ships do.
how about a bad pilot in an AGT prom vs. a mediocre pilot in an orion rev c? prom wins every time. no argument. but my...poem...wasn't about rev c's...i've got another post regarding those =p.
Why not fight with honor?
Why not use some skill?
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
Any player kills."
How horrible, how horribly horribly done. You have a lot of nerve tboyz
It should be
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
a single kill"
It rhymes better
Why not use some skill?
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
Any player kills."
How horrible, how horribly horribly done. You have a lot of nerve tboyz
It should be
"Because," he says, "I wouldn't get
a single kill"
It rhymes better
LMAO ROFL.
That is funny.
I know we wont get balance in ships since there are meant to be ship types that cant really combat other types of ships.
The thing I want to know is... With eventual addition of massive ships what will be more effective. They say that the heavy ships will be the best choice due to weaponry but when we look at the small and large weapons there isnt much of a damage difference except in the case of some rockets. So will the large ships be of any benefit against a cap ship that can deal massive damage when hitting the enemy (probably 1 hit kill small ships and a few shots against large ships)? Would a ship that can easily dodge the fire of a Cap ship be better against it.
In combat with large ships a AGT will be pretty much worthless due to its damage values. So agains tsmall ships it has a high effectiveness with little skill. This weapon cant really be meant for a n00b friendliness since it takes a little bit of time to get the weapon (time varies based on skill).
I have fought Proms in agile ships and I have fought agile ships in heavy ships (Rag 3) and I find that the AGT is over rated anyways. It is effective but when you are fighting the IBG or a Rev C still takes a bit of effort to hit and it isnt that hard to dodge in a agile ship (typically strafe and roll has worked most of the time). I have found that ships using rockets/flares are much mroe difficult to fight since the agile ships die very quickly against this but it does take more skill.
There is almost no aiming needed but the player still needs to be able to judge the enemies movements to keep them from getting behind the Prom.
Yes in a Prom (or any ship with a large port) pilots are all basically the same since the AGT doesnt require as much skill as most weapons. But with the Cents as I had said not a lot of skill is needed either since you only need to learn basic strafing tactics to avoind getting hit by large ships.
Besides the AGT prom chose to go anti-Cent so a heavy rocket ship or a Heavy anything-not-AGT ship will easily destroy the Prom due to its low damage output.
So there is balance in that sense but a Cent only needs 1 layout to be effective against any ship type. Mostly it is Gauss cannons (a few use rails but it isnt quite as effective) and with the damage value added with the goood targetting there isnt much skill needed either.
So as much as I dislike the lack of skill neeeded for such a weapon I do find it comforting to know that there is a effective way for heavy ships to combat light ships.
Oh and when will we get to see your post on the Cents.
Oh and one more thing. Better ships should have an effect on player skill (albeit the Cent is preety close to the Valk and requires far less stats) since they are better ships but there should be some ships that are better but require more skill to use.
That is funny.
I know we wont get balance in ships since there are meant to be ship types that cant really combat other types of ships.
The thing I want to know is... With eventual addition of massive ships what will be more effective. They say that the heavy ships will be the best choice due to weaponry but when we look at the small and large weapons there isnt much of a damage difference except in the case of some rockets. So will the large ships be of any benefit against a cap ship that can deal massive damage when hitting the enemy (probably 1 hit kill small ships and a few shots against large ships)? Would a ship that can easily dodge the fire of a Cap ship be better against it.
In combat with large ships a AGT will be pretty much worthless due to its damage values. So agains tsmall ships it has a high effectiveness with little skill. This weapon cant really be meant for a n00b friendliness since it takes a little bit of time to get the weapon (time varies based on skill).
I have fought Proms in agile ships and I have fought agile ships in heavy ships (Rag 3) and I find that the AGT is over rated anyways. It is effective but when you are fighting the IBG or a Rev C still takes a bit of effort to hit and it isnt that hard to dodge in a agile ship (typically strafe and roll has worked most of the time). I have found that ships using rockets/flares are much mroe difficult to fight since the agile ships die very quickly against this but it does take more skill.
There is almost no aiming needed but the player still needs to be able to judge the enemies movements to keep them from getting behind the Prom.
Yes in a Prom (or any ship with a large port) pilots are all basically the same since the AGT doesnt require as much skill as most weapons. But with the Cents as I had said not a lot of skill is needed either since you only need to learn basic strafing tactics to avoind getting hit by large ships.
Besides the AGT prom chose to go anti-Cent so a heavy rocket ship or a Heavy anything-not-AGT ship will easily destroy the Prom due to its low damage output.
So there is balance in that sense but a Cent only needs 1 layout to be effective against any ship type. Mostly it is Gauss cannons (a few use rails but it isnt quite as effective) and with the damage value added with the goood targetting there isnt much skill needed either.
So as much as I dislike the lack of skill neeeded for such a weapon I do find it comforting to know that there is a effective way for heavy ships to combat light ships.
Oh and when will we get to see your post on the Cents.
Oh and one more thing. Better ships should have an effect on player skill (albeit the Cent is preety close to the Valk and requires far less stats) since they are better ships but there should be some ships that are better but require more skill to use.
It does take some skill. how many people have you rocket rammed?
I didnt say that rocket ramming doesnt take much skill. The lack of skill was in reference to the AGT.
Rocket ramming requires some of the most skill (especially sicne they will hurt you more than them). So you now need to hit the enemy without blowing yourself up. Now it is easy to perform the manuever but to actually do it effectively it takes skill. I prefer rocket ramming over the faster ships... The other methods I have tried and enjoyed were the Tri-Gauss (can kill a Rev C in about 2 connects... someimes 3) and the Tri-Rail (this is hard to dodge but is very energy consuming, also takes a bit of work for aiming; I still havent got the aiming down fully yet). Thr Tri-Gauss can be dodged but with proper shooting it is very effective (and takes less energy than the rail and requires no ammo).
Rocket ramming requires some of the most skill (especially sicne they will hurt you more than them). So you now need to hit the enemy without blowing yourself up. Now it is easy to perform the manuever but to actually do it effectively it takes skill. I prefer rocket ramming over the faster ships... The other methods I have tried and enjoyed were the Tri-Gauss (can kill a Rev C in about 2 connects... someimes 3) and the Tri-Rail (this is hard to dodge but is very energy consuming, also takes a bit of work for aiming; I still havent got the aiming down fully yet). Thr Tri-Gauss can be dodged but with proper shooting it is very effective (and takes less energy than the rail and requires no ammo).
Daikaze, the strafing is here to stay, the thing on the back of the ship isn't the engine. this has been debated over and over again. ships use some gravitational motion which means any direction is fair game, what you see behind the ship are heatsinks. and this is a good thing.
as for the SC AGT combination being noob-friendly, it has nothing to do with levels, but with skill. it requires a lot less skill to use it than to use almost anything else. you're still pretty mobile, you have 21K armor, and with a heavy battery, you can turbo to 3K easily at 220.
just after the "nerf" I fought a Hog in my SC, it was silly. I didn't even bother dodging much since, heck, trading blows 1 to 2 in his favor would actually win me the duel. if someone hits you, fine, just make sure you get into good enough AGT range, it's worth loosing a few thousand armor. once you get to good AGT range, staying there is easy against anything but Cents or Vultures (with good pilots).
and with the fast ships getting slower, and weapons getting faster, it doesn't exactly make the 21K armor less important.
as for the SC AGT combination being noob-friendly, it has nothing to do with levels, but with skill. it requires a lot less skill to use it than to use almost anything else. you're still pretty mobile, you have 21K armor, and with a heavy battery, you can turbo to 3K easily at 220.
just after the "nerf" I fought a Hog in my SC, it was silly. I didn't even bother dodging much since, heck, trading blows 1 to 2 in his favor would actually win me the duel. if someone hits you, fine, just make sure you get into good enough AGT range, it's worth loosing a few thousand armor. once you get to good AGT range, staying there is easy against anything but Cents or Vultures (with good pilots).
and with the fast ships getting slower, and weapons getting faster, it doesn't exactly make the 21K armor less important.
I have to say that this is the most ridiculous thread in ages.
The skill in flying the prom is NOT in the aiming, its in the DODGING. Any fighter pilot worth his N3s can hit a prom side-on, so its all about making them panic and show you some flesh. It seems pretty obvious what you're saying here, tboyz, you are simply pissed off that there's a ship out there that can best an IBG given pilots of equal skill. There is NO OTHER SHIP that can take on an IBG and win. And lets not forget, the IBG isn't even your main special.
Has anyone here actually FOUGHT a good valk pilot with a prom? If they manage their energy and keep their distance they are far, FAR harder to defeat- simply because you can't just turbo at them, they will RIP YOU TO SHREDS. What about a good Aggresso? You ever fought one of THOSE in a prom? Swarms hurt. A lot. Combine that with an AGT+sunflare and there's very little you can do against it. Admittedly the prom IS an excellent ship, but thats just how it should be. It got 50N knocked off its thrust. A small chunk off its spin torque. AGT proms just don't cut it as well against fighters no more. I'm a good prom pilot. You can't just go up to a fighter and blast them if the fighter has any presence of mind whatsoever.
So whilst normally I'd counter a flame topic with an extinguisher, I'll just counter-flame. tboyz, you suck.
The skill in flying the prom is NOT in the aiming, its in the DODGING. Any fighter pilot worth his N3s can hit a prom side-on, so its all about making them panic and show you some flesh. It seems pretty obvious what you're saying here, tboyz, you are simply pissed off that there's a ship out there that can best an IBG given pilots of equal skill. There is NO OTHER SHIP that can take on an IBG and win. And lets not forget, the IBG isn't even your main special.
Has anyone here actually FOUGHT a good valk pilot with a prom? If they manage their energy and keep their distance they are far, FAR harder to defeat- simply because you can't just turbo at them, they will RIP YOU TO SHREDS. What about a good Aggresso? You ever fought one of THOSE in a prom? Swarms hurt. A lot. Combine that with an AGT+sunflare and there's very little you can do against it. Admittedly the prom IS an excellent ship, but thats just how it should be. It got 50N knocked off its thrust. A small chunk off its spin torque. AGT proms just don't cut it as well against fighters no more. I'm a good prom pilot. You can't just go up to a fighter and blast them if the fighter has any presence of mind whatsoever.
So whilst normally I'd counter a flame topic with an extinguisher, I'll just counter-flame. tboyz, you suck.
"There is NO OTHER SHIP that can take on an IBG and win."
Not true. Lots of ships can take on an IBG and win. I've killed IBG's, and I've been killed in IBG's.
"So whilst normally I'd counter a flame topic with an extinguisher, I'll just counter-flame. tboyz, you suck."
Yours was a flame. Tboyz' was humourous enough I wouldn't classify it as a flame.
[edit]
As far as proms go, I'll laugh at tboyz' poem, not because it's strictly true, but because it's nearly true. I'm not saying the proms should be nerfed any further, I think this latest patch probably did enough, but I will say that the Valk needs to be beefed up somehow. Here's how I think of it: the prom should be one of the very best ships in the game, which it is - again I'm not saying it needs to be nerfed. But the Valk should also be one of the very best, and currently it's not. I consider myself to be fairly competent at combat piloting, but in a IDF Valk, I can barely take Martin.mac.au down, with his 200-300 ms ping times.
The one last compaint I have against Proms is not their combat ability, but their ability to run from combat. In CtC the other day I was chasing a prom that had just stolen Itani PureXith, and when it turned to fight I was whaling on it (again thanks in part to lag), after which he turned & ran again, and I was not able to catch him again. I'd like to see the prom's turbo thrust dropped a little bit, so that it doesn't accelerate to max turbo speed quite so quickly. That'd make it fit more as what I'd think of as a heavy combat ship.
[/edit]
Not true. Lots of ships can take on an IBG and win. I've killed IBG's, and I've been killed in IBG's.
"So whilst normally I'd counter a flame topic with an extinguisher, I'll just counter-flame. tboyz, you suck."
Yours was a flame. Tboyz' was humourous enough I wouldn't classify it as a flame.
[edit]
As far as proms go, I'll laugh at tboyz' poem, not because it's strictly true, but because it's nearly true. I'm not saying the proms should be nerfed any further, I think this latest patch probably did enough, but I will say that the Valk needs to be beefed up somehow. Here's how I think of it: the prom should be one of the very best ships in the game, which it is - again I'm not saying it needs to be nerfed. But the Valk should also be one of the very best, and currently it's not. I consider myself to be fairly competent at combat piloting, but in a IDF Valk, I can barely take Martin.mac.au down, with his 200-300 ms ping times.
The one last compaint I have against Proms is not their combat ability, but their ability to run from combat. In CtC the other day I was chasing a prom that had just stolen Itani PureXith, and when it turned to fight I was whaling on it (again thanks in part to lag), after which he turned & ran again, and I was not able to catch him again. I'd like to see the prom's turbo thrust dropped a little bit, so that it doesn't accelerate to max turbo speed quite so quickly. That'd make it fit more as what I'd think of as a heavy combat ship.
[/edit]
Why flame him? It was a humourous as Beolach said. I think the poem is funny.
Why does he use this evil ship?
And why this Gatling Turret too?
Maybe it is because...
His skills are poo-poo.
Mainly because you said poo-poo, and it rhymed! Nice poem Tboyz!
Why does he use this evil ship?
And why this Gatling Turret too?
Maybe it is because...
His skills are poo-poo.
Mainly because you said poo-poo, and it rhymed! Nice poem Tboyz!
Tboyz, you are a great writer :) This ode is great fun.
As this is not under roleplay and imho has not much to do with humour ... humour does not mean making bad jokes about other people.
<<And owned by those Serco brats>>
... stop naming Sercos like this. Oh, i can't talk for all Serco - so, stop calling me a brat.
... and stop complaining about the prom and the agt. I wrote it in another thread: Strange to see, that the AGT was never a problem in the past. It does not do that much damage and it is dodgable.
<<And owned by those Serco brats>>
... stop naming Sercos like this. Oh, i can't talk for all Serco - so, stop calling me a brat.
... and stop complaining about the prom and the agt. I wrote it in another thread: Strange to see, that the AGT was never a problem in the past. It does not do that much damage and it is dodgable.
in regard to the point Daikaze made earlier about not liking the strafing, i think it *is* an integral part of the game and it should be there, but i admit i am confused as to why you can accelerate/move as fast sideways and backwards as you can forwards. I think all ships should have a 'maneuvering thrust' and a 'primary drive thrust' so that they would be even more varied in terms of maneuverability. Also this might go some way towards balancing the heavier ships, if they were still very fast on the forwards acceleration, but slower on the strafe.
It would mean that sometimes it'd be advantageous to dodge using your main thrusters by making attack runs on the target rather than strafing all the time. Other ships (like the valk) would be maneuverable in all directions very well, but would have their own weaknesses as they do now.
I think it would add an extra level of balance, of tactics and of variety to the game.
Thoughts?
It would mean that sometimes it'd be advantageous to dodge using your main thrusters by making attack runs on the target rather than strafing all the time. Other ships (like the valk) would be maneuverable in all directions very well, but would have their own weaknesses as they do now.
I think it would add an extra level of balance, of tactics and of variety to the game.
Thoughts?