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no not really.
Incarnate:
"This does not, in my opinion, demonstrate a need to mute him or exact some other form of revenge. Rather, it shows a design flaw in the game."
hmm, what's that rule governing exploiters? I forget completely.
Systematic solutions to individual problems in a community make no sense. The "tactics" that Arolte employs, ARE NOT within the spirit of the game, since they are not intended to produce a result, such as a pk, profit, or a nationalistic goal. Instead, they seek to demoralize. If you are not willing to make this distinction (because I guarantee you'll never find a mathematical solution), then clearly authority is misplaced.
Incarnate:
"This does not, in my opinion, demonstrate a need to mute him or exact some other form of revenge. Rather, it shows a design flaw in the game."
hmm, what's that rule governing exploiters? I forget completely.
Systematic solutions to individual problems in a community make no sense. The "tactics" that Arolte employs, ARE NOT within the spirit of the game, since they are not intended to produce a result, such as a pk, profit, or a nationalistic goal. Instead, they seek to demoralize. If you are not willing to make this distinction (because I guarantee you'll never find a mathematical solution), then clearly authority is misplaced.
hm seems I missed some conversation here. What happened? Something about Arolte? What is that story with BLAK leaving the game?
M. Duncan
M. Duncan
Shape, Holden, Borb, Tumble, Alamar, Yoda, ? and maybe a few more all cancelled their accounts today.
Basically it has to do with what is acceptable behaviour, Apparently continual poking and prodding is quite acceptable. Ergo BLAK, who have attempted to uphold honour in fighting and have tried to play the game while making it entertaining for other players are obviously not playing the right game. Apparently it's not a game about who can be the best or most skilled. It's not a game about roleplaying. It's just a space based game to see who can be the most annoying at the expense of others gameplay.
But don't forget, if you ever find yourself being poked and prodded by someone who keeps running as soon as you look at him and doesn't know when to quit, all you have to do is "adapt".
Basically it has to do with what is acceptable behaviour, Apparently continual poking and prodding is quite acceptable. Ergo BLAK, who have attempted to uphold honour in fighting and have tried to play the game while making it entertaining for other players are obviously not playing the right game. Apparently it's not a game about who can be the best or most skilled. It's not a game about roleplaying. It's just a space based game to see who can be the most annoying at the expense of others gameplay.
But don't forget, if you ever find yourself being poked and prodded by someone who keeps running as soon as you look at him and doesn't know when to quit, all you have to do is "adapt".
I disagree shape.
Arolte's tactics are perfectly valid within the context of the game. the current problem is that it is impossible to take a realistic action against him because death has no meaning, and there are no detriments to his chosen play style.
Does this mean I like his tactics.. NO.
Does this mean I want to see more of his tactics used.... NO
Does this mean He's the only one who will EVER **USE** these tactics.. absolutely not.
Have you ever played another MMO shape? Compared to, for example PKing on Ultima Online; arolte is a novice, and actually quite polite about it. (this is only in comparison mind you)
Ultima Online chose to split the PvP and the NoN-PvP areas of thier game to solve this, Even the free MMO Runescape has an area where PvP is dis-allowed, and players who dont wish to participate stay.
segregating PvP and non-PvP however is not really a viable solution in VO if it is to remain the game that the developers wanted it to be. Making the nation spaces much safer, fixing the reputation system so that actions have real consequences, and adding some sort of appropriate penalty for dying (dont ask me what an appropriate penalty is however, thats a whole new series of threads) would be a better solution, all of which i'm sure the devs have plans for.
And to be clear, Arolte is NOT an individual problem. We have dealt with players who had that play style in the past, and in the past it was actually worse. (anyone remember thargoid? Tradeship1, hell in alpha even Icarus was worse than arolte is now if you set it in the context of the universe at the time)
As a matter of fact, the number of players using tactics such as this is surprisingly SMALL given the size of the community we have. In game, universal solutions are FAR more neccesary than taking action against an individual player, because vendetta has had a very calm childhood for the most part, and watch out everyone.. there is a big storm moving in. If the devs cant build some decent breakwaters (to continue my naval analogy what the heck) we're gonna get flooded with exactly this kind of tactic.
EDIT: if all those players did choose to cancel thier accounts that makes me sad, because in truth arolte has done the game a service long term. If no-one acted like this now, imagine how bad it would be when the game is ready for more publicity and every 3rd player who started new chose to act like this. It's much easier to develop code and in game solutions to things like this when the playerbase is small.
EDIT2. oh, and arolte, i've said it before and i'll say it again, BLAK is NOT a pirate guild. its a mercenary group, so targeting them as pirates is bad logic on your part.
Arolte's tactics are perfectly valid within the context of the game. the current problem is that it is impossible to take a realistic action against him because death has no meaning, and there are no detriments to his chosen play style.
Does this mean I like his tactics.. NO.
Does this mean I want to see more of his tactics used.... NO
Does this mean He's the only one who will EVER **USE** these tactics.. absolutely not.
Have you ever played another MMO shape? Compared to, for example PKing on Ultima Online; arolte is a novice, and actually quite polite about it. (this is only in comparison mind you)
Ultima Online chose to split the PvP and the NoN-PvP areas of thier game to solve this, Even the free MMO Runescape has an area where PvP is dis-allowed, and players who dont wish to participate stay.
segregating PvP and non-PvP however is not really a viable solution in VO if it is to remain the game that the developers wanted it to be. Making the nation spaces much safer, fixing the reputation system so that actions have real consequences, and adding some sort of appropriate penalty for dying (dont ask me what an appropriate penalty is however, thats a whole new series of threads) would be a better solution, all of which i'm sure the devs have plans for.
And to be clear, Arolte is NOT an individual problem. We have dealt with players who had that play style in the past, and in the past it was actually worse. (anyone remember thargoid? Tradeship1, hell in alpha even Icarus was worse than arolte is now if you set it in the context of the universe at the time)
As a matter of fact, the number of players using tactics such as this is surprisingly SMALL given the size of the community we have. In game, universal solutions are FAR more neccesary than taking action against an individual player, because vendetta has had a very calm childhood for the most part, and watch out everyone.. there is a big storm moving in. If the devs cant build some decent breakwaters (to continue my naval analogy what the heck) we're gonna get flooded with exactly this kind of tactic.
EDIT: if all those players did choose to cancel thier accounts that makes me sad, because in truth arolte has done the game a service long term. If no-one acted like this now, imagine how bad it would be when the game is ready for more publicity and every 3rd player who started new chose to act like this. It's much easier to develop code and in game solutions to things like this when the playerbase is small.
EDIT2. oh, and arolte, i've said it before and i'll say it again, BLAK is NOT a pirate guild. its a mercenary group, so targeting them as pirates is bad logic on your part.
I'd like to see you try to stop it Spellcast. because you have two choices, limit freedom techically, or limit it by saying "do this in a fashion we find unacceptabe and be banned".
right now, anything that doesn't interfer with the game mechanics is okay. so, how about I park my Valk outside a newbie spawn place in Itan and pop newbies, we know I won't loose faction. and even if they fix that, I can still follow them and take them down to 5% while they're botting, just to be an asshole and get some attention. how do you stop me from doing that with a technical solution? how many layers of technical checks do you think it'll take to be able to control social behaviour like this?
I've played a few other MMOGs, and know poeple who player others as well, most of these games have banned people for behaviour, not just blatant rule breaking. especially when you don't *have* techical solutions, you should at least deal with the problem at some level, but hey, whatever, my account is cancelled. I gave up hope.
right now, anything that doesn't interfer with the game mechanics is okay. so, how about I park my Valk outside a newbie spawn place in Itan and pop newbies, we know I won't loose faction. and even if they fix that, I can still follow them and take them down to 5% while they're botting, just to be an asshole and get some attention. how do you stop me from doing that with a technical solution? how many layers of technical checks do you think it'll take to be able to control social behaviour like this?
I've played a few other MMOGs, and know poeple who player others as well, most of these games have banned people for behaviour, not just blatant rule breaking. especially when you don't *have* techical solutions, you should at least deal with the problem at some level, but hey, whatever, my account is cancelled. I gave up hope.
what "tactics"? players claim I'm an Asshole and I spam, but I dont, I use my swarms and sumflares to the hight of my ablity, people die, get mad that they got beaten by me, and complain about it. it is partly my fault, when I was younger, I WAS a spammer, and an annoyinng kid. I've grown up, but people still can't see past, my past. since I used to be an ass all the time, everyone believes that I'm being one. sure, like yesterday I was being one (I was Roleplaying tho) and people got mad. someone was making false chars of me like "Aroltebondage Buttclaw" and saying I was sleeping wiht a sheep >.< some pretty nasty stuff. then later, someone found one of the old name bugs, and was impostering me, even a1k0n was fooled for a bit (heh, he kicked me off the server about 5 times before he found how the guy was doing it) it turned out someone made a fake free acoount, but still.
everyone is a living player, you must respect that, and remeber to treat others as you want them to treat you.
Blackhole Goldclaw
everyone is a living player, you must respect that, and remeber to treat others as you want them to treat you.
Blackhole Goldclaw
terjekv posted: "" so, how about I park my Valk outside a newbie spawn place in Itan and pop newbies, we know I won't loose faction. and even if they fix that, I can still follow them and take them down to 5% while they're botting, just to be an asshole and get some attention.how do you stop me from doing that with a technical solution? how many layers of technical checks do you think it'll take to be able to control social behaviour like this?""
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
specifically points #2 and #3 in my first , , , very LONG post, the ones about station docking and reputation gain/loss.
as to other MMO's; in general the players that get banned for behavior get banned for VERBAL behavior, not thier actions.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
specifically points #2 and #3 in my first , , , very LONG post, the ones about station docking and reputation gain/loss.
as to other MMO's; in general the players that get banned for behavior get banned for VERBAL behavior, not thier actions.
spellcast > its called calling for help. guilds like viper are made for that (remember the alpha when it was a major problem? when it happend, the noob called for help, and most of the time he got it)
I don't want to start another flamewar or anything, but I ask that you at least please listen to these things I have to say.
Okay, consider this... pretend like I'm not the only one here. Pretend like a whole guild of players have taken up this style of role playing. And as the game evolves to a thousand some players, those numbers will continue to grow.
It would be virtually impossible to have enough guides on to go around and listen to everyone's complaints. And with the time it takes to thoroughly investigate any of these problems, they're simply not going to go around banning people one by one as a form of punishment, assuming it is even considered against the game's written rules. So obviously having that type of intervention isn't the solution in the long run.
Realistically the only way you're going to find a solution to this is to discourage that type of game play through features. A bounty system and hired mercenary NPCs are just a few suggestions to add even more fun to the game, while helping these problems in the process. It works for everyone. That's what the devs meant when they said they're aiming for a more parallel role playing style for everyone.
That being said, I highly recommend that you pay a visit to the suggestions forum and post some constructive ideas about how to solve the issue. Think of features which can make the game fun for both sides. A way to encourage killers and pirates to be targeted more often would be a good first step. But there are even better ones which probably haven't even been mentioned yet. Add to it!
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that nothing is going to get done by mobbing together and trying to get one or two people banned. I'm not just saying that for my personal defense. It's just a counterproductive way to go about solving the problem.
In the long run it's just not going to work. And in a way it also severely limits the extent to which you can freely play the game. And I'm sure the devs and players don't want to have to deal with that form of babysitting. So set your anger aside and think of suggestions to fill that gap which exists now.
That's all I'm going to say. I hope you seriously consider what I've written. It could help make the game more fun for everyone. Holding grudges doesn't get anything done.
Okay, consider this... pretend like I'm not the only one here. Pretend like a whole guild of players have taken up this style of role playing. And as the game evolves to a thousand some players, those numbers will continue to grow.
It would be virtually impossible to have enough guides on to go around and listen to everyone's complaints. And with the time it takes to thoroughly investigate any of these problems, they're simply not going to go around banning people one by one as a form of punishment, assuming it is even considered against the game's written rules. So obviously having that type of intervention isn't the solution in the long run.
Realistically the only way you're going to find a solution to this is to discourage that type of game play through features. A bounty system and hired mercenary NPCs are just a few suggestions to add even more fun to the game, while helping these problems in the process. It works for everyone. That's what the devs meant when they said they're aiming for a more parallel role playing style for everyone.
That being said, I highly recommend that you pay a visit to the suggestions forum and post some constructive ideas about how to solve the issue. Think of features which can make the game fun for both sides. A way to encourage killers and pirates to be targeted more often would be a good first step. But there are even better ones which probably haven't even been mentioned yet. Add to it!
I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that nothing is going to get done by mobbing together and trying to get one or two people banned. I'm not just saying that for my personal defense. It's just a counterproductive way to go about solving the problem.
In the long run it's just not going to work. And in a way it also severely limits the extent to which you can freely play the game. And I'm sure the devs and players don't want to have to deal with that form of babysitting. So set your anger aside and think of suggestions to fill that gap which exists now.
That's all I'm going to say. I hope you seriously consider what I've written. It could help make the game more fun for everyone. Holding grudges doesn't get anything done.
there is a difference in pointing out a problem and asking someone to fix it, and finding a problem and using it for all its worth.
I *can* start popping newbies inside the NFZ, and heck, since the punishment is already set at 1500XP or so, I'm already *being* punished for doing this. the game mechanics have established the penalty for doing this already, I can't be punished any other way then, that'd be double jeopardy, right?
so, a week of BP and off I go in my Valk. the reason? oh, I *hate* these Itanis and Sercos, they should all die, so I start with the young'uns and cut of they supply chain.
see, if I did that for three weeks, I would *hope* someone banned me, but what we're saying here is that, nah, it's a flaw, we'll have to live with it.
I *can* start popping newbies inside the NFZ, and heck, since the punishment is already set at 1500XP or so, I'm already *being* punished for doing this. the game mechanics have established the penalty for doing this already, I can't be punished any other way then, that'd be double jeopardy, right?
so, a week of BP and off I go in my Valk. the reason? oh, I *hate* these Itanis and Sercos, they should all die, so I start with the young'uns and cut of they supply chain.
see, if I did that for three weeks, I would *hope* someone banned me, but what we're saying here is that, nah, it's a flaw, we'll have to live with it.
I am really going to miss playing VO, but to make sure my favorite game survives something has to change. I have tried everything else, so there is really only one thing left I can do: leave.
And for me this has never been about Arolte. Its about the holes he is abusing not getting fixed for month and month. If new WH effects are more important than running, WH hopping, >3k sector jump at low health, faction system exploits, friendly fire exploits, lmine bugs, NFZ exploits, etc, something has to give. Sorry for complaining again, but at least its the last time.
I had a blast during alpha and beta. Thanks for letting us participate in developing VO. Maybe I will check back in a few month.
"?"
And for me this has never been about Arolte. Its about the holes he is abusing not getting fixed for month and month. If new WH effects are more important than running, WH hopping, >3k sector jump at low health, faction system exploits, friendly fire exploits, lmine bugs, NFZ exploits, etc, something has to give. Sorry for complaining again, but at least its the last time.
I had a blast during alpha and beta. Thanks for letting us participate in developing VO. Maybe I will check back in a few month.
"?"
well then Arolte, if you understand that your behavior is sucking the life out of the game,along with the community, and the measures aren't in place yet to counteract it, then why don't you just lay off it for a little while as the devs fix the bounty system and whatnot?
terjekv posted - ""I *can* start popping newbies inside the NFZ, and heck, since the punishment is already set at 1500XP or so, I'm already *being* punished for doing this. the game mechanics have established the penalty for doing this already, I can't be punished any other way then, that'd be double jeopardy, right?"""
as it stands now, thats the punishment, however the fact that you dont take permanant faction hit for kills INSIDE the NFZ is a known bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. Thus, that particular action is exploiting a bug, and it was not originally intended to work that way.
It was actually a fix for a different bug that went very very wrong, I think the bug it fixed was minor compared to the bug that was created, and it should probably be reversed for the short term, after all 1 reputation point isnt that big of a deal compared to being able to kill next to a station with immunity.
as far as being double jeapordy, no not really, because thats not a concept that vendetta is required to use in any way shape or form. And be aware that the penalty CAN, IMO SHOULD (and probably[hopefully?] WILL) be changed
as it stands now, thats the punishment, however the fact that you dont take permanant faction hit for kills INSIDE the NFZ is a known bug that will hopefully be fixed soon. Thus, that particular action is exploiting a bug, and it was not originally intended to work that way.
It was actually a fix for a different bug that went very very wrong, I think the bug it fixed was minor compared to the bug that was created, and it should probably be reversed for the short term, after all 1 reputation point isnt that big of a deal compared to being able to kill next to a station with immunity.
as far as being double jeapordy, no not really, because thats not a concept that vendetta is required to use in any way shape or form. And be aware that the penalty CAN, IMO SHOULD (and probably[hopefully?] WILL) be changed
I agree with andreas. I feel that if my leaving the game is needed to help things then so be it. I can not stand by for month after month and watch things not get fixed.
As I have said before this has nothing to do with Arolte, quite frankly I enjoy out smarting him and leaving him with nothing to shoot. How ever what he does is exploit the game for his own sick source of fun.
Now as I have said the Devs made rules to deal with this sort of thing, and any idiot with a brain can tell Arolte is not one of a kind, he is neither the first nor the last greifer VO will see. How ever wither or not the Devs do their job and fix the problem in the right way will dictate wither or not this game will last.
He may or may not be breaking laws but he is breaking the spirt of the laws, and he will not be the first or last, you Devs must now step up and do your job. Will you?
Quaedam iura non scripta sed omnibus scriptis certiora sunt
As I have said before this has nothing to do with Arolte, quite frankly I enjoy out smarting him and leaving him with nothing to shoot. How ever what he does is exploit the game for his own sick source of fun.
Now as I have said the Devs made rules to deal with this sort of thing, and any idiot with a brain can tell Arolte is not one of a kind, he is neither the first nor the last greifer VO will see. How ever wither or not the Devs do their job and fix the problem in the right way will dictate wither or not this game will last.
He may or may not be breaking laws but he is breaking the spirt of the laws, and he will not be the first or last, you Devs must now step up and do your job. Will you?
Quaedam iura non scripta sed omnibus scriptis certiora sunt
so, what if I just shoot the newbies to 5% as their botting? how about that? I won't even kill them, I'll just make sure the bots finish them off. I'll just fly around and poke them a bit, you know, until they log.
this is an endless journey, and you won't stop it all with technical means without removing huge amounts of freedom in the game.
yes, it might be a slippery slope, but the longer you wait the more you implicitly accept.
this is an endless journey, and you won't stop it all with technical means without removing huge amounts of freedom in the game.
yes, it might be a slippery slope, but the longer you wait the more you implicitly accept.
unfortunately borb what two different people see as the spirit of the laws might be two different things. I see the rules of conduct as designed to prevent out of game griefing and harassment of the players, and however poorly he is behaving in game, I haven't seen anything to indicate that arolte is actually DOING that. Have any of you created an alternate character with good UIT standing, (not telling arolte WHO the character is) and flown past arolte behaving as if you didnt know him at all to see if he would attack you?
Does he target ALL your characters or just the ones that behave in a certain way or have certain affiliations?
The main problem we have right now is that the game doesnt have enough to do to give a viable alternative activity if one activity is disrupted by another player.
In an ideal game if someone is being an arse at one point, you can just go elsewhere to avoid him/her. right now everyone kind of congregates together as there isnt much to do, so a player who wants to be a bit of an irritant can easily follow that group of people around, you cant scatter to all corners of the universe and still interact with each other in a meaningful way.
It's a sticky situation, but i have to say that long term i suspect the devs can fix it. As to standing by month after month, well i understand your frustration, but that is one of the things that you get when dealing with a small development group that is basically shoestringing it much of the time.
hell you sometimes get it when dealing with major multinational game companys. (go to www.dungeonlords.com and follow the link to the dreamcatcher forums under the community page if you want a good example of a game where the community got REALLY screwed)
the point is that some things just take time. It's the major reason the devs arent going for a big publicity push. If you dont find it acceptable at the moment, it would be a good idea to cancel your account [which you allready did i gather. :( ] and check back in half a year or so to see what has changed. Some things have to be prioritized, and some things HAVE to depend on other items.
A more permanant IN-GAME solution to the behavior of players like arolte is more the devs job than simply banning arolte; and its a better solution IMO. unfortunately its probably not a FAST solution.
EDIT REPLY TO terjekv.
Covered that in my post i linked. All sectors inside nation spaces become monitored, so for every 10% of damage you do to them you loose 25 reputation points as a permanant loss. It wont take too long for strike forces to arrive if you persist in that behavior, making it an activity that you cant engage in for very long. It's kind of like a 3 strikes law, only it takes a little bit more time, and is an ingame solution. Of course all the penalties can be adjusted appropriately if they are found to be too harsh or not harsh enough. the point is that limits such as those are FAR more desirable than out of game limits such as bans and the like.
Does he target ALL your characters or just the ones that behave in a certain way or have certain affiliations?
The main problem we have right now is that the game doesnt have enough to do to give a viable alternative activity if one activity is disrupted by another player.
In an ideal game if someone is being an arse at one point, you can just go elsewhere to avoid him/her. right now everyone kind of congregates together as there isnt much to do, so a player who wants to be a bit of an irritant can easily follow that group of people around, you cant scatter to all corners of the universe and still interact with each other in a meaningful way.
It's a sticky situation, but i have to say that long term i suspect the devs can fix it. As to standing by month after month, well i understand your frustration, but that is one of the things that you get when dealing with a small development group that is basically shoestringing it much of the time.
hell you sometimes get it when dealing with major multinational game companys. (go to www.dungeonlords.com and follow the link to the dreamcatcher forums under the community page if you want a good example of a game where the community got REALLY screwed)
the point is that some things just take time. It's the major reason the devs arent going for a big publicity push. If you dont find it acceptable at the moment, it would be a good idea to cancel your account [which you allready did i gather. :( ] and check back in half a year or so to see what has changed. Some things have to be prioritized, and some things HAVE to depend on other items.
A more permanant IN-GAME solution to the behavior of players like arolte is more the devs job than simply banning arolte; and its a better solution IMO. unfortunately its probably not a FAST solution.
EDIT REPLY TO terjekv.
Covered that in my post i linked. All sectors inside nation spaces become monitored, so for every 10% of damage you do to them you loose 25 reputation points as a permanant loss. It wont take too long for strike forces to arrive if you persist in that behavior, making it an activity that you cant engage in for very long. It's kind of like a 3 strikes law, only it takes a little bit more time, and is an ingame solution. Of course all the penalties can be adjusted appropriately if they are found to be too harsh or not harsh enough. the point is that limits such as those are FAR more desirable than out of game limits such as bans and the like.
How about an option to prevent PvP kills? Something like when a given user kills you 3 times without you killing them, and if your levels are low enough, you can opt to be immune from damage from that player (and them from you)?
There was a situation the other day where two players were teaming up to mine a station and try to call newbies to it for cheap PK's. This is the sort of thing that *will* hurt the game in the long run.
Matt
There was a situation the other day where two players were teaming up to mine a station and try to call newbies to it for cheap PK's. This is the sort of thing that *will* hurt the game in the long run.
Matt
Spell, I see your goal, I truly hope one can make it work, I just don't believe you'll ever get there.
and you know, banning isn't the only solution the other way either. a stern "don't do that, it's not how we intended this to be done" and getting people to chill is a start. if they don't chill, well, then you can start to think of what to do.
and as long as the safty features aren't in place, accepting it to be violiated also sets a standard I'm not to keen on supporting. so, if it had been a case of just one person being an ass, yeah, maybe I'd check back. unless the procedures for how to handle disruptive behaviour change, I see no point.
and you know, banning isn't the only solution the other way either. a stern "don't do that, it's not how we intended this to be done" and getting people to chill is a start. if they don't chill, well, then you can start to think of what to do.
and as long as the safty features aren't in place, accepting it to be violiated also sets a standard I'm not to keen on supporting. so, if it had been a case of just one person being an ass, yeah, maybe I'd check back. unless the procedures for how to handle disruptive behaviour change, I see no point.
""as long as the safty features aren't in place, accepting it to be violiated also sets a standard I'm not to keen on supporting.""
now this I can understand. I certaintly WOULD like to see the devs ask players that are disruptive to calm down at this time of the game's development cycle as in many ways those of us that pay are small investors in the game, not just customers.
However, baldly asserting (as has been done in several threads) that the devs are ignoring thier own rules and/or refusing to enforce them is more detrimental in the long run than the disruptive players.
To the players that are leaving, You will be missed, stop back and see us, however if the devs were to choose to take direct action against arolte i think *I* would have to leave because while arolte is most definitely acting like a.. well, a not nice person..... his actions are IMO not as much of a problem as the holes in the game that allow them. Fixing the holes is the solution.
think of it as an illness;
you dont treat the symptoms.. you treat the cause of the symptoms.
arolte is a symptom of the real virus, namely the holes in the game, most of which should be plugged as death penalties, reputation, the economy, and how missions interact with all 3 are looked into.
now this I can understand. I certaintly WOULD like to see the devs ask players that are disruptive to calm down at this time of the game's development cycle as in many ways those of us that pay are small investors in the game, not just customers.
However, baldly asserting (as has been done in several threads) that the devs are ignoring thier own rules and/or refusing to enforce them is more detrimental in the long run than the disruptive players.
To the players that are leaving, You will be missed, stop back and see us, however if the devs were to choose to take direct action against arolte i think *I* would have to leave because while arolte is most definitely acting like a.. well, a not nice person..... his actions are IMO not as much of a problem as the holes in the game that allow them. Fixing the holes is the solution.
think of it as an illness;
you dont treat the symptoms.. you treat the cause of the symptoms.
arolte is a symptom of the real virus, namely the holes in the game, most of which should be plugged as death penalties, reputation, the economy, and how missions interact with all 3 are looked into.
"... as well as no evidence to back up why he should be muted, other than an extensively orchestrated campaign by a guild to exact revenge against someone they disliked (whether their dislike was understandable is a whole other topic)."
Sorry, but thats simply not true :-(. In game, I am at war with that very guild. It is my declared goal to destroy BLAK. I kill most of its members at sight. Yet, I fully agree with everything they complain about. Every single player I talked to does. This is not an in-game conflict between a guild and an individual. This is a community being unhappy with griefers preventing us from enjoying this game and the devs not doing enough about it. The community used the only recourse it has available (vote mute). Yes, its not perfect and yes, something better should replace it, but according to Arolte's own logic it was perfectly acceptable to use it this way. Its beyond me why exploiting design flaws to grief people is ok, but expressing your dissent through vote mute is not. I strongly believe the mute should be restored. If Arolte wants to get rid of it, he will have to "adapt" his behavior. But thats just my 5c. I guess I am the wrong kind of player for this game.
Sorry, but thats simply not true :-(. In game, I am at war with that very guild. It is my declared goal to destroy BLAK. I kill most of its members at sight. Yet, I fully agree with everything they complain about. Every single player I talked to does. This is not an in-game conflict between a guild and an individual. This is a community being unhappy with griefers preventing us from enjoying this game and the devs not doing enough about it. The community used the only recourse it has available (vote mute). Yes, its not perfect and yes, something better should replace it, but according to Arolte's own logic it was perfectly acceptable to use it this way. Its beyond me why exploiting design flaws to grief people is ok, but expressing your dissent through vote mute is not. I strongly believe the mute should be restored. If Arolte wants to get rid of it, he will have to "adapt" his behavior. But thats just my 5c. I guess I am the wrong kind of player for this game.