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Specifically, in-game conduct rules 2 and 3. I quote:
2. You may not harass others.
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the Guide involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.
3. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a sector or area.
Sector/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications.
Arolte has been actively interrupting my duels, ganking me at wormholes, destroying me while typing, and even extending this behavior to everyone in Deneb C-10 simply because I was border patrolling. He is FULLY aware of his actions. I have ignored him for as long as I can without blowing a blood vessel.
The way I see it, you MUST suspend him, according to the Rules of Conduct. Or are they just nothing more than a pretty façade for when the "real" problem players show up? (i.e. people who personally annoy the Guides.)
-:sigma.SB
2. You may not harass others.
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. As harassment can take many forms, the Guide involved will make a determination as to whether or not a "reasonable person" would feel harassed and act accordingly.
3. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a sector or area.
Sector/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications.
Arolte has been actively interrupting my duels, ganking me at wormholes, destroying me while typing, and even extending this behavior to everyone in Deneb C-10 simply because I was border patrolling. He is FULLY aware of his actions. I have ignored him for as long as I can without blowing a blood vessel.
The way I see it, you MUST suspend him, according to the Rules of Conduct. Or are they just nothing more than a pretty façade for when the "real" problem players show up? (i.e. people who personally annoy the Guides.)
-:sigma.SB
I agree with his banning. I was one of the player on border patrol with Solra when he made playing almost impossible, and most certainly unenjoyable. Strangely, Arolte didn't attack me when I wasn't near Solra. I know this is Vendetta Online, but is someone allowed to hold a vendetta just because that person beat him with a bus?
I say you two bus duel and the loser's account gets suspended for 7 days.
But that's just me....
But that's just me....
Oh but he is RPing!
Funny thing is last time I looked Solra had vary good UIT faction, hmm guess that blows away the whole red green RP thing...
Funny thing is last time I looked Solra had vary good UIT faction, hmm guess that blows away the whole red green RP thing...
Solra, the rules are left to the interpretation of Guild Software and those they have chosen as guides, not you. Aside that, he is playing the game, shooting you with legitimate actions. The duel system doesn't protect you from harm, merely make it official. He also can't know you're typing. By playing the game, you accept the possibility of winning or losing.
Harassment shouldn't be taken into context of the game environment. Harassment would be something that can inconvenience or harm you regardless if the setting is in the game or not.
Sector/Area disruption is not fighting in a sector or area, it's making that sector or area not function as it was designed; even looser it is defined as harming or inconveniencing MORE than one group of players. It was most definitely designed to allow combat, or 'ganking'.
You haven't really read these rules of conduct have you? Don't test them if you are going to misinterpret them.
Harassment shouldn't be taken into context of the game environment. Harassment would be something that can inconvenience or harm you regardless if the setting is in the game or not.
Sector/Area disruption is not fighting in a sector or area, it's making that sector or area not function as it was designed; even looser it is defined as harming or inconveniencing MORE than one group of players. It was most definitely designed to allow combat, or 'ganking'.
You haven't really read these rules of conduct have you? Don't test them if you are going to misinterpret them.
> You haven't really read these rules of conduct have you? Don't test them if you are
> going to misinterpret them.
You haven't really read my post have you? Don't refute it if you are going to misinterpret it.
In the context of the game or not does not matter. This person is going out of his way to PISS ME OFF. He is destroying my ability to enjoy this game. He complains about people who interrupt duels, then turns around and interrupts. He complains about double-teaming, but runs until the odds are in his favor. He waits on the other side of a wormhole to try to kill me. He claims to only shoot people who are red on his radar, and then attacks me. Not for any RP reason. Because he hates me.
-:sigma.SB
> going to misinterpret them.
You haven't really read my post have you? Don't refute it if you are going to misinterpret it.
In the context of the game or not does not matter. This person is going out of his way to PISS ME OFF. He is destroying my ability to enjoy this game. He complains about people who interrupt duels, then turns around and interrupts. He complains about double-teaming, but runs until the odds are in his favor. He waits on the other side of a wormhole to try to kill me. He claims to only shoot people who are red on his radar, and then attacks me. Not for any RP reason. Because he hates me.
-:sigma.SB
"You haven't really read these rules of conduct have you? Don't test them if you are going to misinterpret them."
SERIOUSLY!!!! How dare you misinterpret?!?!?!? How dare you "test" these rules AND misinterpret. I mean seriously... Do you HAVE a brain??!?!
Solra, how dare you quote the rules of conduct (i mean misinterpret) and then say that they mean something! I mean seriously... That's not what they're there for. Listen to Katarn, Katarn knows all.
O_O
Disclaimer: [Extreme amounts of sarcasm in above post, posts original intentions are aimed at entertaining in the form of laughter. Noones emotions should be hurt by this mindless conjunction of words.]
SERIOUSLY!!!! How dare you misinterpret?!?!?!? How dare you "test" these rules AND misinterpret. I mean seriously... Do you HAVE a brain??!?!
Solra, how dare you quote the rules of conduct (i mean misinterpret) and then say that they mean something! I mean seriously... That's not what they're there for. Listen to Katarn, Katarn knows all.
O_O
Disclaimer: [Extreme amounts of sarcasm in above post, posts original intentions are aimed at entertaining in the form of laughter. Noones emotions should be hurt by this mindless conjunction of words.]
Yeah you'd think the players of the game we're getting independent and bad things like that.
Get back in your line paying players this is not a game where you are allowed to think!!! What you think this is America or some thing?!?!
Get back in your line paying players this is not a game where you are allowed to think!!! What you think this is America or some thing?!?!
Solra Bizna: thanks for testing out the rules. I was planning to violate one or two of them this week to see what will happen.
I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse the spirt if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left.
To anyone who doesn't alredy know this their is a suggestion thread about the new rules here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10994
Feel free to add your comments and suggestions at the above link.
JB
-----------------------------
I realize that i volated a rule here by linking to another thread, FM please forgive me but more people do read the general forums then the suggestions forums. I think everyone should know about this issue and make thier suggestions before the rules are final.
I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse the spirt if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left.
To anyone who doesn't alredy know this their is a suggestion thread about the new rules here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10994
Feel free to add your comments and suggestions at the above link.
JB
-----------------------------
I realize that i volated a rule here by linking to another thread, FM please forgive me but more people do read the general forums then the suggestions forums. I think everyone should know about this issue and make thier suggestions before the rules are final.
No... you're playing the game even if he's killing you. Pissed off is not harmed or inconvenienced.
How is having your duel purposely interrupted not inconveniant, Katarn?
What there is a rule about not posting links? Gah, guess I should have read the friggin things.
Oh and Katarn, so like if some one is sexualy harssing me and it's really only making me angry so like it should not really matter after all I'm fine. Feelings mean nothing after all.
Oh and Katarn, so like if some one is sexualy harssing me and it's really only making me angry so like it should not really matter after all I'm fine. Feelings mean nothing after all.
I didn't say it wasn't, Cyghost.
Borb II, sexual harassment is outside the realm of gameplay. I don't think it should be excluded as well.
Borb II, sexual harassment is outside the realm of gameplay. I don't think it should be excluded as well.
also, from the code of conduct:
9. "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.
Though Vendetta Online is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.
so harassment under the guise of RP isn't accepted.
9. "Role-playing" does not grant license to violate these rules.
Though Vendetta Online is a Role-playing game, the claim of "Role-play" will not be accepted in defense of any of the anti-social behaviors mentioned above. We strongly encourage role-playing, but cannot allow it to be done at the expense of others.
so harassment under the guise of RP isn't accepted.
So now you get to pick and choose what is defined as "herasment" and what is not Katarn?
Edit: But you still don't answer the questions about feelings? Are they not as important as the phyical body? Last time I looked more people leave VO over what they feel...
Edit: But you still don't answer the questions about feelings? Are they not as important as the phyical body? Last time I looked more people leave VO over what they feel...
I don't make the rules Borb. Not like it matters.
Borb, we have guides, weapons and allies to deal with most of the feeling issues. If you have a problem you can ask a guide, take your anger out on someone or console a friend or have them help kill your enemy. You know how to deal with your feelings, you don't need other players banned to accomplish it. I think that'd do more hurt than help.
Topic #1, Arolte's behaviour:
We have never penalized users for fundamental in-game behaviour, and I don't feel comfortable starting now. I think it's a slippery slope to start defining what Is and Isn't "ok" PVP behaviour. After all, piracy fundamentally annoys some people and is considered "harassment" by some players, but not by me.
The definition of Harassment in the Rules of Conduct was intended to cover mostly verbal-abuse scenarios, which are usually what we run into, but not place any limitations in the event of the unforseen cropping up. Like all the rules, it's up to us (Guild) to interpret them. There are no hard and fast "MUST" and "MUST NOT" definitions. Our overall goal is for everyone to be happy, but I'm not willing to make certain gameplay sacrifices in the interest of that (like, for instance, open PVP).
The definition of sector/area disruption was intended to prohibit exploitative behaviour that has a negative impact on a sector server or some other gameplay construct. Essentially, an artificial out-of-game-context imbalance placed on a particular area through some exploitative behaviour that seriously impacts the quality of service the server can provide.
So, in the end, what I am willing to do here is contact Arolte and ask him to stop pursuing you and Tramshed so single-mindedly. This is probably what a Guide would have done, had you found one in-game. I'm certainly not going to ban him for killing you. Killing/shooting players half the point of the game. I do not condone his in-game behaviour, but I'm not willing to sacrifice a fundamental tenet of the game (free-for-all PVP) to take the easy way out. I do sympathize, but this is, in the long run, an unenforcable situation in a PVP-driven game. I mean, if kicking him became the standard, any group claiming "abuse" could get together and target anyone they disliked to have them removed from the game. Server logs are of little use here.. they just show "yes, people killed other people here and there", not a long-term pattern of actual harassment.
It is for this reason that we have long intended player-driven authority mechanisms to deal with this kind of situation (like the /vote mute, and actual player "perception" having a separate impact on a more complex type of "faction standing"), and that is in the design-works, but won't be present for months.
Topic #2: General response to the addition of the Rules:
I've said this a couple of times now, and I'm going to restate it again as simply as I can and hope that people read it: These rules are not intended to alter or modify any of our past handling of in-game problems.
We are not suddenly "banning" things. We are giving ourselves the teeth to be able to deal with really untenable situations should they arrise in the future, without having to worry about being sued. The whole reason why I had to add these rules was NOT because of excessive abuse, but because someone threatened to SUE us.
So please, the sarcasm really isn't constructive. The attitude that we're suddenly imposing some fascist regime on the game is incorrect and rather excessive. We haven't even DONE anything to anyone. Yes, fundamentally the adjudaction of any actions are up to US (guild) and us alone.. in fact, pretty much just me, just as it always has been. So it may not be democratic, but we haven't suddenly altered our long-standing behaviour of listening to user input and trying to get the best balance of things for everyone. We (or I) really don't deserve this sort of acidic response implying that we're suddenly evil, un-american overlords. We're simply trying to run a cool game, and not be sued out of business by some unpleasant person.
I'll talk to Arolte. Everyone take a deep breath and please, lighten up.
We have never penalized users for fundamental in-game behaviour, and I don't feel comfortable starting now. I think it's a slippery slope to start defining what Is and Isn't "ok" PVP behaviour. After all, piracy fundamentally annoys some people and is considered "harassment" by some players, but not by me.
The definition of Harassment in the Rules of Conduct was intended to cover mostly verbal-abuse scenarios, which are usually what we run into, but not place any limitations in the event of the unforseen cropping up. Like all the rules, it's up to us (Guild) to interpret them. There are no hard and fast "MUST" and "MUST NOT" definitions. Our overall goal is for everyone to be happy, but I'm not willing to make certain gameplay sacrifices in the interest of that (like, for instance, open PVP).
The definition of sector/area disruption was intended to prohibit exploitative behaviour that has a negative impact on a sector server or some other gameplay construct. Essentially, an artificial out-of-game-context imbalance placed on a particular area through some exploitative behaviour that seriously impacts the quality of service the server can provide.
So, in the end, what I am willing to do here is contact Arolte and ask him to stop pursuing you and Tramshed so single-mindedly. This is probably what a Guide would have done, had you found one in-game. I'm certainly not going to ban him for killing you. Killing/shooting players half the point of the game. I do not condone his in-game behaviour, but I'm not willing to sacrifice a fundamental tenet of the game (free-for-all PVP) to take the easy way out. I do sympathize, but this is, in the long run, an unenforcable situation in a PVP-driven game. I mean, if kicking him became the standard, any group claiming "abuse" could get together and target anyone they disliked to have them removed from the game. Server logs are of little use here.. they just show "yes, people killed other people here and there", not a long-term pattern of actual harassment.
It is for this reason that we have long intended player-driven authority mechanisms to deal with this kind of situation (like the /vote mute, and actual player "perception" having a separate impact on a more complex type of "faction standing"), and that is in the design-works, but won't be present for months.
Topic #2: General response to the addition of the Rules:
I've said this a couple of times now, and I'm going to restate it again as simply as I can and hope that people read it: These rules are not intended to alter or modify any of our past handling of in-game problems.
We are not suddenly "banning" things. We are giving ourselves the teeth to be able to deal with really untenable situations should they arrise in the future, without having to worry about being sued. The whole reason why I had to add these rules was NOT because of excessive abuse, but because someone threatened to SUE us.
So please, the sarcasm really isn't constructive. The attitude that we're suddenly imposing some fascist regime on the game is incorrect and rather excessive. We haven't even DONE anything to anyone. Yes, fundamentally the adjudaction of any actions are up to US (guild) and us alone.. in fact, pretty much just me, just as it always has been. So it may not be democratic, but we haven't suddenly altered our long-standing behaviour of listening to user input and trying to get the best balance of things for everyone. We (or I) really don't deserve this sort of acidic response implying that we're suddenly evil, un-american overlords. We're simply trying to run a cool game, and not be sued out of business by some unpleasant person.
I'll talk to Arolte. Everyone take a deep breath and please, lighten up.
I've created a thread specifically for this in the role playing forum. Use that space to rant your woes and I'll be happy to respond. I've made a list in that thread summing up why I consider this to be a legitimate form of gameplay. I recommend you check it out if you still have issues regarding this.
In the 2 years I've known him ig, I've never heard Arolte verbally abuse anyone. I'm sure we can all agree that so long as they aren't exploiting a bug, annoying tactics are no cause to ban someone. This thread would never have existed before the rules of conduct were posted, let's not use them as a means of venting frustration.
He waits on the other side of a wormhole to try to kill me.
Are you actually complaining about this? This is a strategy called wormhole camping. People used to do this all the time in alpha and beta. Please.
*points finger*
Zomg! genka spams swarms! Ban him!
/me pies this thread and runs away
He waits on the other side of a wormhole to try to kill me.
Are you actually complaining about this? This is a strategy called wormhole camping. People used to do this all the time in alpha and beta. Please.
*points finger*
Zomg! genka spams swarms! Ban him!
/me pies this thread and runs away